1969 Monza 140 Coupe.
Hasn't run in years.
Was a friends car that passed away 37 days after being diagnosed with inoperable brain cancer.
He was a better attorney than mechanic.
He was a GOOD ATTORNEY, practiced estate/trust law.

Carbs are all screwed up, linkage is shot.
Planning on going with Roger Parent's system.

I installed new Viton needles/seats and accelerator pump cups, steel stock fuel lines the system is tight. Had a bunch of Aeroquip Hoses from a distribution block, junk.
Has a black block looking electric fuel pump right off the bottom of the fuel tank.
Probably needs a fuel pressure regulator.

Have it running now, but not good.

Engine is fairly new and probably has a cam, but I don't know which one.
There was a lot of $$ spent on this car.

Despite the carb problems I decided to check the timing.
Has I believe a PerTronix ignition.
Mechanical advance is free and snaps back easily, but seems short.
Vacuum advance is hooked up to the manifold, primary carb right side, so vacuum all the time.
Initial advance was set at 26 degrees without the vacuum advance hooked up.
I reset it to 12 degrees, but when revving the motor I don't see any mechanical advance.

Where should I start for initial and total?
Why if the mechanical advance feels free do I not see any advance in the timing while revving the engine?
Is there a different fitting that gives ported vacuum for the vacuum advance?

Just trying to get the basics done to get the car to move under its own power before throwing more $ at it for linkage and F/I.

Thanks,
Dave
CA Central Coast & Los Angeles

1969 Monza-Coupe 140 4-Speed



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2021 02:41AM by drb9300.

The ported vacuum is oriented vertically I believe, at the base of the right side primary carb. You may have the wrong distributor, for earlier 140s the part number should end 330. Not sure what is correct for a smog distributor if you still have it. The 330 advance increases from 18 initial to 36 at 2800 rpm; you should definitely be able to see mechanical advance. Good luck! Ken

Ken Henry, Rochester, NY USA
1965 Corvair Corsa
140 hp, 4 speed



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2021 06:53AM by KenHenry.

#1 You start with a shop manual.

All of your basic info is in there and if the engine is modified in any way then you need to know or find out what was done.

You also need to straighten out the vacuum advance, The tube goes on the vertical tube on the carb, that is ported.

As far as the mechanical advance depending on which weights and springs are in there some don't advance until 4200 rpm! If you happen to be looking at the vacuum advance, if that is hooked to direct vacuum then it will not move ever.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

The distributor number is on the outside of the distributor body, clockwise from the vacuum advance arm and counter-clockwise from where the wire comes out going to the coil. It's 7 digits like 1110xxx, it's the last 3 digits that mean something.

A lot can happen in 50 years so it's not unusual to have a distributor that's wrong for the application. Well intentioned people sometimes think they're all the same. Also a distributor can be modified inside but at least the number is a place to start. 330 is a good 140 Manual distributor from 1965-67; 68 and 69 might be something different, numbered somewhere in the 454 neighborhood.

I will generally plug the vacuum advance to get it running good and then introduce the vacuum advance. Vacuum advance is sort of a cruising gas mileage thing. You should be seeing mechanical advance when you rev it up, especially with a 330 which is "all in" at a relatively low RPM.

I will generally get it running good on Primary carburetors only and then introduce the Secondaries. Original Secondaries had no idle circuit but it's not uncommon for them to be changed. If introducing Secondaries with idle circuits you just need to reduce the Primary stop screw adjustments.

The first thing the Roger Parent instructions say is that it's easiest to swap it in when the stock linkage is working well but sometimes we have no choice if there's parts missing or wrong.

It's good news that you're getting your friend's Corvair going again. I bet he'd be pleased.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

The shop manual has detailed instructon on a complete tune-up.

Start with a full engine compression test with all spark plugs removed. Inspect each one as it comes out for signs of potential problems in each cylinder.
Throttle held full open. Should have 130 lbs. with no more than 20 lbs. variation. Record each cylinder.
Find Top Dead Center at firing position for cylinder #1. Note position of the distributor rotor to the plug wire location on the cap. This is where plug wire #! is installed. In clockwise direction install the next 5 spark plug wires making sure that the Firing Order is absolutely correct.

---

Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CCF admin ~
CORSA +Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 Corsa 140 Coupe ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Convertible Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza Spyder Convertible ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 CoupeEvening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

If the ported vacuum (vertical tube) has vacuum all the time, the idle speed is too high, holding the throttle plate past the ported opening in the venturi. Fix that first, if possible. If not, remove and put a rubber cap over that tube on the carburetor. No need to plug the hose to the vacuum advance can.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

Jim made some great suggestions.

Keep in mind 1969 was an emissions control year. My book shows a 1969 140HP distributor number of 1110454 and you set the static timing at 4 BTC!! It was typical then to have little timing advance at idle to reduce emissions. To make the car run mechanical timing advanced VERY quickly from about 800 RPM by about 14 degrees at 1,400RPM.

BTW- I've fixed a few poorly running emissions equipped cars were the mechanic has set the timing with a high idle (distributor mechanical timing was already advancing) by reducing the idle to 600 RPM to set the timing, then resetting the idle speed higher if needed.

That said if the emissions air pump is gone then the best thing you can do is install a pre-emissions distributor # 1110330 (non-PG) and set the static timing at 18 BTDC. The car will be more driveable at lower RPM.

'68 and '9 maybe '67 secondaries do have idle circuits in them. They are a fixed size with no mixture screw. You can see passage plugs installed for the idle circuit to know if they are the later carbs. They have the idle curcuits but no transition curcuits in between idle and main metering.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

Frank DuVal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the ported vacuum (vertical tube) has vacuum all the time, the idle speed is too high, holding the throttle plate past the ported opening in the venturi. Fix that first, if possible. If not, remove and put a rubber cap over that tube on the carburetor. No need to plug the hose to the vacuum advance can.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

True but when you sort of snap the throttle the vacuum advance will still move.

Advance the throttle slowly and the vacuum advance will stay advanced.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

I assume you are using a timing light, if so as said before disconect the vac hose from vac advance when timing most of the engines. over the years I have come across 3 differant cars with a simple mistake, 2 of them someone had disassembled there distributer and installed the parts wrong , you can set timing but the engine gets wores as you rev it up because it is retarding the timing it will not rev to 4000 and sounds terrible the other one had turbo weights in it that will cause no advance till 3900 rpm.

Roger R
Madison Wi
63 greenbriar
65intercooled 180 4sp,autocrosser
62 Rampy

One thing I will comment on. You said you installed a bunch of new parts in the carbs. Did you follow all the adjustment steps in the shop manual when you did this or just install the new parts? If you did not check the 5 or 6 measurements than you may have wasted your time. The carbs need functional parts yes, but, they also need to be adjusted properly and the same on both so they match. Once they are installed the need to be balanced with each other across the linkage as well.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Avid Corvair hobbiest since 1984.
I have personally performed ground up restoration on over 20 Corvairs.
I currently work full time at restoring and repairing Corvairs.
Located in the Atlanta Georgia area.
[www.facebook.com]

I agree with Danny. Check compression on all 6 cylinders. If you don't have good compression NOTHING you do will make it run properly. If compression is good, I suggest get Bob Helt's (R I P) Corvair carburetor book.

Setting initial timing is well and good but one needs to have some idea what the maximum timing is. Having the distributor specs helps to figure it out.
In the above example with a 454 distributor that's supposed to be 4 degrees initial, if you start out at 14 initial it will be up in the 40s at full advance.
Since it's a 69 that's partly why I asked what distributor number it has.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

So the distributor # is 1110278 1H21.
The car has to be idling very slowly, too slowly for the mechanical advance to return.
Found someone had teed the distributor vacuum advance off of the manifold pickup for the choke pulloff.
I took the tee out, put the choke pulloff on the manifold and found the vertical fitting for the distributor.
Another thing is someone also put a vacuum delay valve in the distributor vacuum line, so closing the throttles still left vacuum on the vacuum advance.
I removed that also.
I set the initial timing about 12-14 adjusted the primary carbs a bit and with the vacuum advance setup like it is now the engine revs much better.
I'm still not happy with the mechanical advance.
Googling that p/n pulls up a 62-64 PG distributor.
Should I look for a different distributor or can this be recurved?

Thanks,
Dave
CA Central Coast & Los Angeles

1969 Monza-Coupe 140 4-Speed

278 is a decent curve for your engine!

Full Mech advance is at 4100 rpm......if it were mine I'd remove ONE Spring from ONE weight And plug the VA!



MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

It sounds like someone has changed the parts in the distributor or something in there has failed. I would replace it since timing is so important. Ken

Ken Henry, Rochester, NY USA
1965 Corvair Corsa
140 hp, 4 speed

330 is the usual distributor for 140 HP Manual, at least for 65-66. The advance is all in at 3000 instead of 4000 RPMs. I guess they figured the bigger valves in the 140 heads would be less prone for pinging.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

? What does valve size have to do with pinging?

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 145 Corvairs and counting...

JimBrandberg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 330 is the usual distributor for 140 HP Manual, at least for 65-66. The advance is all in at 3000 instead of 4000 RPMs. I guess they figured the bigger valves in the 140 heads would be less prone for pinging.


Matt thanks for the chart!
Ken, ya this is what I am look at.
Couple on ebay.
What about an HEI Distributor?

Thanks,
Dave
CA Central Coast & Los Angeles

1969 Monza-Coupe 140 4-Speed

Come to the Fan Belt Toss in a couple of weeks and there should be some there with free shipping. I might even have one.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon