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Re: Methanol/Water Injection: What's your setup?
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: September 10, 2021 07:09AM

IMHO, the best forum for methanol/alcohol injection is here [www.turbobuick.com]

Lee J

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Re: Methanol/Water Injection: What's your setup?
Posted by: AlecCarlson ()
Date: September 10, 2021 03:44PM

Ken,


I have an EDIS-6 ignition and a Megajolt/E MK2 ECU so I can control timing pretty well. I also have an Innovate MTX-L AFR installed so I can track air/fuel ratios in real time.

I'm looking forward to installing my DCOE45 with Ray Sedman's progressive mods. I'm just waiting for my Nashfan before I start riping things apart...

Alec
Dahlonega, GA
1965 Corsa Convertible Turbo 4-Speed
Restoration "In Progress"




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2021 03:47PM by AlecCarlson.

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Re: Methanol/Water Injection: What's your setup?
Posted by: AlecCarlson ()
Date: September 10, 2021 04:06PM

I don't know if anyone is interested but... My injection system uses a 50/50 mix of H2O and DA. It must be mixed by WEIGHT not volume !! This gets tricky because H2O weighs a lot more then DA or methanol. I have an excel spread sheet which does the calculations for me. If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll put it up on my webserver. I usually make 3/4 of a gallon at a time since my injection tank only holds a gallon. Here is my spreadsheet for a 50/50 mix by weight of H2O with both meth or DA.

Alec
Dahlonega, GA
1965 Corsa Convertible Turbo 4-Speed
Restoration "In Progress"

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Re: Methanol/Water Injection: What's your setup?
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: September 10, 2021 07:00PM

I hate Initials and Acronyms.
I never know what people are talking about.
Then I have to assume, and we all know what that makes us BOTH.
So, for myself (and I am sure a few others on here), Does DA refer to Denatured Alcohol?

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2021 07:05PM by American Mel.

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Re: Methanol/Water Injection: What's your setup?
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: September 10, 2021 07:01PM

Didn’t know is about mixing by weight, thanks for posting

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Re: Methanol/Water Injection: What's your setup?
Posted by: AlecCarlson ()
Date: September 11, 2021 03:28AM

American Mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, for myself (and I am sure a few others on here), Does DA refer to Denatured Alcohol?

Ahh, sorry - "DA" short for "denatured alcohol". Saves typing smiling smiley

Alec
Dahlonega, GA
1965 Corsa Convertible Turbo 4-Speed
Restoration "In Progress"

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Re: Methanol/Water Injection: What's your setup?
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: September 12, 2021 02:26PM

nirvairna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I found this write up by some motorcycle guys to have some interesting info
>
> RB Racing on Water Injection

They have a section in the write up that lists the "answers" - I Don’t Want To Learn...Just Give Me The Answers!

I incorporated a few of these answers they list into the tune during todays test runs.
6. Water Injection allows ignition timing to be more aggressive or closer to stock. In other words boost does not automatically mean retard your timing.
12. Water or Water / Alcohol to Fuel Ratios are between 12.5% to 25%. This means Air to Fluid Ratios are between 11.1:1 and 10.0:1 with water injection.


So i delayed the boost retard (by one psi increment) starting at 9.5psi - no LEDs on the Safeguard = good. Observed AFR was 10.1 WOT during full boost runs with methanol/water mix spraying. Seat of Pants evaluation = consistent strong acceleration, quicker spooling and no squelch at higher boost levels (methanol has been adjusted to start spraying at 8.2-8.4psi).

This answer below has me convinced that methanol injection needs to be controlled by both boost and RPM

13. Maximum water delivery should be in higher load low to mid rpm ranges tapering somewhat at peak rpms where load is less.

... to be continued

Ken
'62 Spyder
Florida





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2021 02:28PM by kmart356.

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Re: Methanol/Water Injection: What's your setup?
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: September 16, 2021 11:30AM

Snow Performance, single injector at the turbo, I believe a #5 nozzle. Also using the mikuni 45 carb with factory air cleaner. Get about 15 lbs. Boost

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Re: Methanol/Water Injection: What's your setup?
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: September 21, 2021 12:06PM

Seems the most popular configuration (per replies here) is: Snow Performance progressive controller with single nozzle mounted in turbo output.
Here's a chart to use as guidance on nozzle size selection vs flow rate for a "typical" YH fed turbo that peaks at +/- 8psi. Note: Snow Performance progressive is from 10% to 100% flow rate.
These are all theoretical calculations and are provided for "reference only". Make your selections based on your specific engine specs. [psi range in brackets is start/stop settings for progressive controller]



Observations:
- All the nozzle sizes shown can provide the benefits of methanol/water injection.
- The larger nozzles get you closer to the target flow rate but the progressive controller settings need to be properly set - the 100% flow setting might be way above your max boost.
- If you are running 12psi-14psi (or plan to bolt on that Weber DCOE or Mikuni HSR), the 2.5gph and 3.0gph will work well but the 5.0gph very closely approximates the target flow being almost equal above the 8psi range.
- @gnvair - 13psi from your YH carb'd engine with homemade meth injection is Boss gear!
- @goatsnvairs - if your #5 nozzle is 5.0gph you might be in "meth heaven"

Thanks for the examples guys... any others out there please do post your set up.

Ken
'62 Spyder
Florida


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Re: Methanol/Water Injection: What's your setup?
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: September 21, 2021 05:43PM

Ken did you try running straight meth in yours to validate whether you are really over rich or possible water flooding.

You could always add a touch of NOX, just for luck to balance things out.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Methanol/Water Injection: What's your setup?
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: September 21, 2021 06:39PM

J.O.
Have not tried straight meth. I did have very good results adjusting the turn on to 8.2psi and bumping timing above 9psi. It’s running strong with WOT getting avg 10.4 AFR. While I wait for swap to progressive I’m bumping timing and cranking up the boost controller - @63turbo made me do it smoking smiley

Ken
'62 Spyder
Florida


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Re: Methanol/Water Injection: What's your setup?
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: September 21, 2021 07:26PM

kmart356 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> J.O.
> Have not tried straight meth. I did have very good results adjusting the turn on to 8.2psi and bumping timing above 9psi. It’s running strong with WOT getting avg 10.4 AFR. While I wait for swap to progressive I’m bumping timing and cranking up the boost controller - @63turbo made me do it smoking smiley


Yeah, you gotta watch that 63turbo!
He'll make you do a lot of stuff, if you let him. winking smiley

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

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