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Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 23, 2021 08:57AM

My More Door 110 developed a rattle when above idle. Initially though lifterand verified oil level and pressures. All good. Would quiet down above 60, but suspect that road noise was covering up noise. Monday Rick and I troubleshot the issue. We went through several steps, until he finally declared a rod knock was most probable cause.

Now this declaration basically frustrated me, since I had just installed rod bearing when I did a minimal rework on this engine 9700 miles ago. 29 months since I put it on the road. I am now thinking I messed up on the #5 or #6 rod bearing assembly by improper cleanliness.

Donna and spent the last few days removing and breaking down the engine. All rod and main bearings look great. So good that I can reuse then. I do have to do some cleaning work on the heads and replace the seals as they were leaking oil into the cylinders.

The cause of the rattle is the cam gear. A tooth failed and damaged a few more teeth. So I need to get a new camshaft & gear, plus a new set of lifters. But it could have been worse if I didn't catch it as soon as I did.

Hopefully, Vair will be back in service in a couple of weeks. Hot weather will slow us down though. Got an trip in October to Maggie Valley to make.

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: July 23, 2021 09:29AM

Bummer but good to have found that at home and not stuck on the side of the road somewhere.

Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
65 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4 w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza Convertible 110/4
66 Monza Convertible 140/4 A/C
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5



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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 23, 2021 09:30AM

Bummer!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 23, 2021 10:22AM

We have identified why it failed. The crankshaft gear teeth have a very rough finish like it had rusted. So it ate away at camshaft gear teeth.

So I got 9700 miles for a partial rebuild. Still don't need to do a full rebuild. Just have to change gear on crankshaft and have it inspect and measured. If I change the crankshaft, then I am for a full re-bearing process. These existing bearings are all good. Cylinders assemblies are great. Compression test prior to removal showed 165 - 175 range, so no issues there.

Now my question. I have a crankshaft gear setup from a crankshaft that was in a 1968 non-a/c, A.I.R. 110 PG engine. Is it good to use in this 1966 non-a/c 110 engine?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2021 10:25AM by Lane66m.

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 23, 2021 10:29AM

I have got Ken Hand working getting me a reground 891 camshaft with gear.

Contacting Tom Knoblauch for a set of lifters now.

John Sweet and I are communicating about the gasket set. to my request to him, I added a second set of gasket & seals for a 110 I will reseal soon for the Greenbrier.

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: RobertC ()
Date: July 23, 2021 11:24AM

Lane66m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Now my question. I have a crankshaft gear setup from a crankshaft that was in a 1968 non-a/c, A.I.R. 110 PG engine. Is it good to use in this 1966 non-a/c 110 engine?

Do not know the accuracy of the parts book:

65/66 140 w/PG and 68/69 wPG used the retarded crank gear.

There is a diagram in the FAQs that shows how to ID them.

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: July 23, 2021 11:32AM

That is a drag but lucky for you no more than an irritant. As AzDave mentioned, glad it happened at your house (though there is no good place to break down) and not way away from home. Al, can you post a picture of the offending crankshaft gear please?

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 23, 2021 12:09PM

RobertC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> There is a diagram in the FAQs that shows how to ID them.

Could not find the link to the crankshaft gear ID discussion.

I know my gear is from a 68 engine as I had it taken it off the crankshaft and it still has has my ID tag.

I know the parts catalog states the usage, but can it satisfactorily used with a 319 distributor? 68 A.I.R. 110 PGs also used a 319.

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 23, 2021 02:14PM

Just talked to Tom Knoblauch about the 68 gear. Lots more low end power but runs out of power at high rpm/ speeds. Not good for highway driving.

I will get a 66 version.

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: RobertC ()
Date: July 23, 2021 03:05PM

It is a photo - it is the 7th item from the bottom of the Engine section in the FAQs.

I assume it is also in one of Bob Helt's books - and probably the Tech Guide?

65 - 69 manual transmission engines use the "preferrred" gear.

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 24, 2021 03:08AM

Thanks, Robert. I don't know how I missed it, but I did. In the end, the one I have is a paperwipeight I won't be using.

I have a shopping list started with Clark's with this and a few other items already on the list. Hopefully by the end of next week I should have all parts needed at the house. Then the rebuild can restart.

Oh yeah, I am an amateur building this engine. Never had one down this far to build it back up.

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: July 24, 2021 10:18AM

Lane66m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Oh yeah, I am an amateur building this engine. Never had one down this far to build it back up.


Congratulations Al! thumbs upthumbs up
You can do this, I have seen the work you do, and know you are fully capable! cool smiley

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: doug6423 ()
Date: July 24, 2021 02:49PM

I agree with American Mel!
Looking forward to your build thread on the engine.

Doug
65 Monza
Cincy, OH

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: July 24, 2021 02:49PM

Something isn't adding up here. A retarded gear like 140 PG helps with the high RPM torque when using a 95 HP 889 cam.
Quite the opposite with 68? Is it advanced instead of retarded to help with low RPM torque?
This is the first I've heard of different cam timing on 68-69 engines although I don't see many of them. I'd like to know about the theory. Those smog engines are interesting.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 24, 2021 03:29PM

Robert:Thank you for all the help and leads on the gear info.

I dug the 68 ph crankshaft gear out today. I took the crank shaft out of a December 68 coupe 110 A.I.R. 110 engine with 68k miles.

Anyways, I compared it to the FAQ diagram on the gears and determined it is NOT a retard gear. So I can use it.

So I will clean it up and make sure teeth are free of damage and any rust. Right now it looks good, but I want to put a strong light on it to properly inspect it

Hopefully it saves high cost of a new one.

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: July 24, 2021 06:22PM

Al, in your Clark's order do forget the paper gasket behind the crank gear....and possibly a new key.

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 24, 2021 06:39PM

I have the gasket on hand. Wasn't sure whether to change key.

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 25, 2021 02:27PM

Cleaned up the 68 crankshaft gear and its teeth are perfect. It will be used in the rebuild. Thought I had a gear gasket, but it was a larger paper gasket for something else. Not for oil filter, even larger for than that.

Donna and I cleaned all the shrouds and other some engine parts to get them ready for the build. Heads, cylinders, block top cover and rear cover, along with hardware still need cleaning. It got too hot to work in sun to keep cleaning.

All parts are being stored in trunk of coupe in garage or hung on garage wall to keep them inside. Engine build will be done inside the garage. Garage is air conditioned, so it will be a pleasure to build it and take my time without being in the heat.

Working on Clark's order this afternoon.

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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: July 26, 2021 05:53AM

Who's going to press the crankshaft gears off? They scare me.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: Rattle developed in my More Door 110 Engine
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 26, 2021 07:02AM

Machine shop.

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