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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: July 13, 2021 01:31PM

I was thinking you rarely lose 2 cylinders from a dropped seat and the 2 aren't zero.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 119 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 14, 2021 04:27AM

1st post #5 - no reading. I guess that means it is pegged on the gaged. I took it as needle did not move = zero.

Did I miss more compression tests being done in my fast read of this saga.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 14, 2021 04:40AM

Also that 1st post should have had the "experts" opining the basics to check that cylinder's adjustment and to loosen up the rocker arm nuts to see if he could regain the compression. At the same time to check valve stem height compared to each other at TDC on that cylinder. Didn't need to start jumping into lots of guessing and borescoping. Yes, 2 bronze screws are missing, but won't cause 0 psi compression in one cylinder. unless it was holed and you would know that with an oil issue from the cylinder. The screw issue was a smaller issue to figure out after the cause of compression issue on #5 was determined.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: July 14, 2021 08:35AM

Such wonderful basic advice from you Lane! :-)

(Joel, your "loosen all of them" advice is welcome, too.)

I should just private message you the next time something like this happens.

The car is pretty far apart, but not enough for me to do a simple TDC check. Pictures of the results are below. Assuming I found proper TDC. The notch in the balancer was nowhere to be seen, and from what I can tell it's probably right underneath at 180. But if I tried to bring it up I would get way off TDC as I understand it.

A very slight difference in height, but it is there.

Eric C. Player
Fargo, North Dakota
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and Great Plains Corvair Club.
THEN: 1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow - 1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red - 1966 Monza 110, Purple - 1967 Monza 140, Red - 1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow" - 1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"
---------------------------------------
"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2021 08:41AM by playerpage.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: July 14, 2021 08:39AM

The reason the car's apart more, is that I decided that the valves were probably something simple as you say, and not a cause for concern. And I can always adjust them later. What I wanted to do is have everything apart, which is practically what you have to do to get the top shout off in a turbo, in order to be ready to install the Nash Fan when it shows up sometime in 2023. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Don't worry, the spark plug wires have not been removed and made into a mystery as to where they go. I took the main cap off because those wires were in the way, that's a spare.

I took a look down the heads from above. Everything is nice and clean, no scoring which would probably come from screws heading into it at those speeds, so that's a nice indicator. But what do these letters signify?

Eric C. Player
Fargo, North Dakota
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and Great Plains Corvair Club.
THEN: 1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow - 1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red - 1966 Monza 110, Purple - 1967 Monza 140, Red - 1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow" - 1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"
---------------------------------------
"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: July 14, 2021 08:53AM

Sorry Al you are correct. I had just read another thread where 2 cylinders were very low and got them mixed up.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 119 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: isucorvair ()
Date: July 14, 2021 09:09AM

The letters are probably just identifiers for the core that was used for the intake runner during the casting process.

Eric P.
DeWitt, IA

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 14, 2021 09:10AM

Now use an air hose and rubber tip nozzle and blow air into the cylinder. If it comes out the exhaust then the exhaust valve is open. Exhaust being the end valve and looks like it is not up as high.

If you get air coming out, try this next step.

Mark location of on harmonic balancer on rear cover to know their current alignment. Rotate crankshaft a few degrees one way (1/4 inch on your marks max) and try air again. Then reverse rotate crankshaft past the mark you made the same amount and try air again. This makes sure that valve is still open on each side of where you think #5 TDC is.

If air is still coming out on each side of TDC, locate another head. I recommend Tom Knoblauch. He is on this forum. But get 2 from him and do a good installation to get through this once and for all. He has the improved Turbo heads you won't regret buying.

PM me if you want Tom's phone number and email address.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: July 14, 2021 09:32AM

Thanks for the advice. I hope the heads don't have to come off, but you make a lot of sense. Of course, I will have to factor in to the price a plane ticket and hotel for an expert to come help me with the final install. I can take the thing apart all day--there comes a point when you want somebody looking over your shoulder as it goes back together. drinking smiley

Eric C. Player
Fargo, North Dakota
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and Great Plains Corvair Club.
THEN: 1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow - 1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red - 1966 Monza 110, Purple - 1967 Monza 140, Red - 1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow" - 1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"
---------------------------------------
"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 14, 2021 10:17AM

Dropped seat means head replacement or get that head reworked. Do it on the cheap and expect to repeat process down the road someday.

If the head comes off, then you get to see how cylinders are and of course re-ring the pistons. Hopefully they are forged pistons. If not and original cast aluminum, cracks are probable and new pistons would then be needed so match new cylinders to them. New pistons means to get them balanced with their rods and new bearings. Lots of seals and gaskets needed.

Looking at the numbers on the other side, if it was my engine and one head was coming off, then other would coming off too. Just have a budget of $2500 to $6000 for a complete build for all the parts and machine work. My Tom Knoblauch 110 heads run $1600 but quality work and we expect up to 30 HP more from them.

So take it to heart that there is a lot more to a head replacement, if you expect a reliable engine.

But until you get confirmation of the dropped #5 exhaust seat, take it one step at a time and hope for the best with the engine, but major rework could be looming.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: isucorvair ()
Date: July 14, 2021 10:46AM

Lane66m Wrote:


"expect to repeat the process down the road someday" - yep, but it could be WAY down the road.

I have about 10k miles on a "junkyard" head I slapped on my Rampside engine after a dropped seat / broken valve guide on the original head. No deep seat, no staking, only lapped the valves. smiling smiley Everyone's mileage may vary. I like to live dangerously, and yes, new heads would be worth more than the truck (well, at the time, probably not now!)
>

You dont ALWAYS have to do a complete new, blueprinted build, to get the car back on the road, as long as YOU are Ok assuming the risks that come with it!


Eric P.
DeWItt, IA

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 14, 2021 11:19AM

I agree with partial builds, if you have something that is a candate for a partial build. I have a 110 barn find engine running in my More door. New pistons, rings rod bearings and jugs, heads leaked checked and new gaskets and seal. 9700 miles on it so far.

Lots more risks on a turbo engine than a lower hp engine. All depends on what Eric finds AFTER he confirms he has a dropped seat. Then it is his budget and his wants he have to make agree on the repair. He can throw a head on it if it has a dropped seat but the other side is down in compression. Won't be a good runner until turbo evens up the sides (maybe). How do turbo OEM piston hold up, do they crack with mileage also? Then what happens if the old OEM piston let loose. I don't know as I am not a turbo person. All I know is most people on this forum says don't use LM pistons if they have lots of miles. To me that means over 50K. But what do I know about aluminum pistons?

Anyways, he has been futzing with this engine for awhile and it has been 100s of dollaring him to death. It appears to be the time to make a decision on whether to invest time and money and do it right. Or keep the dollars low again on the repair and see what happens. He has to make decisions as he steps through his investigation process. We all can root for him to to go for the cheap fast fix, but where does it get him 3 years from now, if it does it again on another used uninspected head.

Best thought is to give him good advice on what he finds and let him make his decisions as he progresses.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: July 15, 2021 03:03PM

So update. I did the blow test, loosened The rocker arms, and did another compression test.

For the blow test, I hooked up a electric air pump with a rubber grommet around the nozzle, then stuck it into the spark plug hole. I ran the air through, and couldn't pick up a discernible sound of air rushing, outside of the sound of the pump itself, but I did smell gasoline. Which I think was just blowback from the spark plug hole. As a control, I also tried blowing through one of the cylinders that I know to be good, and it didn't seem to be doing anything different. I also took a small bit of string and put it next to the intake and exhaust areas while running the test, couldn't see any fluttering.

With the rocker arms loose, I did the compression test on #5 again. Still no reading, but a difference. This time, the hose attachment for the compression gauge got some air built into it. Previously, Not only was there no reading with the needle completely at zero, but no air with building up at all. This time, even though I still failed to get a reading after seven turns of the engine (which is all I was comfortable doing at a time), there was enough air built into the hose for it to hiss when I pressed the release.

So that's where we are.

Eric C. Player
Fargo, North Dakota
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and Great Plains Corvair Club.
THEN: 1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow - 1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red - 1966 Monza 110, Purple - 1967 Monza 140, Red - 1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow" - 1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"
---------------------------------------
"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: July 15, 2021 05:49PM

Had a request to see what kind of air compression tester I'm using, so here it is.

Eric C. Player
Fargo, North Dakota
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and Great Plains Corvair Club.
THEN: 1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow - 1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red - 1966 Monza 110, Purple - 1967 Monza 140, Red - 1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow" - 1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"
---------------------------------------
"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: July 15, 2021 07:07PM

Looks like it will do the job. thumbs up

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: July 16, 2021 04:18AM

Visually, we've already established that the exhaust valve doesn't open all the way. Could all this be just the result of a bad spring? I get one with more tension that opens up all the way could that be it?

Eric C. Player
Fargo, North Dakota
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and Great Plains Corvair Club.
THEN: 1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow - 1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red - 1966 Monza 110, Purple - 1967 Monza 140, Red - 1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow" - 1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"
---------------------------------------
"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 16, 2021 04:55AM

You are looking at an intake valve not opening (spring broke / lobe wiped) or an exhaust valve cracked open (seat out of place). An exhaust valve not opening would give you great compression and backfiring.

Did you rotate the engine and watch the rockers and see that #5 rockers are moving like the other rockers on the head? I hope a cam lobe hasn't been wiped out. Only other thing I can think of that would prevent getting compression on a cylinder.

I am not going to assume the tester has gone bad since you have good tests on other cylinders. But if you want to confirm test is still reading proper, put it on another cylinder while you rotate the engine to view rockers.

Video the rockers from #5 end, if possible, to show travel on #5 & #3.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2021 04:57AM by Lane66m.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: isucorvair ()
Date: July 16, 2021 05:29AM

I think I paid $14 for a bluetooth bore scope (that connects to my phone) on Amazon.

It may be time to look down the plug holes. Its how I diagnosed my last 2 dropped valve seats, and missing piston, in a heartbeat.



Eric P.
DeWitt, IA

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 16, 2021 05:33AM

Check page 2 of discussion for horoscope photos. Info on spring height also reported. Lots of info in previous pages of what has been done. Trying to get it isolated to why #5 can't build compression.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 16, 2021 05:44AM

Eric:

You did a compression test with rockers loose. Yep, you can expect no compression. Adjust those valves per the procedure in the link I have you earlier. Then do a compression test on that cylinder..

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