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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: Cheepfk ()
Date: July 07, 2021 09:02AM

The tiny pitting in one of the cylinders you pictured is not wear. It suggest that the cylinders were not properly re-bored prior to assembly. Your turbo looks very dirty for a 3500-5000 mile rebuild. Moreover, the pistons look like they may be cleaned-up re-used pistons. The cylinder head issue you had on your newly "rebuilt" engine also coincides with a sub-par rebuild if you ask me. Overall the internal photos show parts that look like they have way more use on them than just a few thousand miles. No sense guessing or relying on stories. I suggest you review the engine build sheet. That should identify exactly what machine work was performed and what new parts were used. Without that it's all speculative guesswork and wishful thinking on your part no matter who did the work. I would think any re-builder as you describe would be proud to furnish such a engine build sheet on their quality work. When you tear it apart you'll find the truth. In the end you'll be happier and with a properly rebuilt engine and you'll go tens of thousands of miles without trouble not just a few thousand.
Good luck to you.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2021 09:06AM by Cheepfk.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 07, 2021 09:14AM

Cheepy, Eric starts a new topic for everything that happens, making it impossible to follow.

As I recall Rescued derelict "fixed up" by Highschhool shop class..

Eric purchased and soon had to replace a head.

Most recently it was left in Calif. to be made ready for the drive to ND.....which it did nicely.

Eric is just not "that lucky guy" gggg

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: Cheepfk ()
Date: July 07, 2021 03:44PM

"fixed up" by Highs schhool shop class.." is exactly the type of rebuild I suspected.

I think Eric used up whatever luck he had on his long drive.

I'm sorry if I've mis-communicated on his thread or previous posts.

Hope he gets it squared away alright.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 07, 2021 04:24PM

Eric's always done what is necessary to get it back on the street. This is not a major failure.... he'll get it!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: July 07, 2021 04:39PM

Look up the words Corvair Perseverance and there is a picture of Player.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 08, 2021 05:30PM

playerpage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
The engine had thousands of dollars worth of work done by one of the best men in the hobby just before being driven halfway across the country. The driver's side head was one of the items serviced then.

================================================

Please a little more detail!! You drove the car to him, correct?

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: July 10, 2021 09:06AM

Sorry to miss that fun conversation Matt.

I didn't drive it to him, it was flat bedded to him in Paso Robles, from Porterville, CA. Not because it couldn't have been driven, but because I was already in Fargo and there was no other way to get it out there.

After he worked on it, I drove it from Paso Robles to Fargo. Hardly any issues, (see a future issue of the Communique!) and no breakdowns.

The work he did to the driver side head was mostly associated with making it more Turbo friendly. It's not like he didn't do anything to the passenger side, but it wasn't nearly as extensive.

Honestly, I can't be any more detailed than that. He's a very busy man and while I've been following up with him occasionally, he has yet to send me the invoice for everything he did. I've already paid him, and I don't regret that at all. I was a member of the same club with him for years. A lot of us Corvair guys work on trust, as you know.

Phil--ain't that the truth.

For the rest, as a follow up, I've made my first attempt at a valve adjustment. I think I made things worse, or at least no better. I have no compression on five still, and I also have no compression on one and four. I didn't check the others it didn't seem like there was a point to it.

A nice thing about the valve adjustment, even though the valves are probably too tight right now and need to be adjusted again, is that I did it with my 23 year old son who was up visiting from Omaha. That's the kind of stuff I like Corvairs for. Frankly, he is trained as a mechanic but was kind of lost on the old car. I was the expert on the project! He's trained on things 2010 and newer from a fancy school that doesn't think about the classics. First thing I noticed was that he wanted to make everything much tighter than it ought to be especially on aluminum. But make no mistake about it, I was the one down on the valves and I'm the one that messed that up.

Advice is welcome, but some things to keep in mind: I can't do a running valve adjustment. For obvious reasons. But I still have guys on Instagram who are also following my progress making that suggestion. Given that Instagram is so picture heavy I'm kind of flabbergasted why they would even suggest it, but you know how it is.

I've gone through the Richard Finch book and found some nice procedures for when it's time to get the car really running again, like a non-running timing procedure which sounds fascinating. But I can't make kids or tails of his organization system to that book, and so I have yet to find his legendary cold adjustment formula. Is it perhaps available in another book like Corvair Basics or Corvair Gold?

I bet whether or not it's his exact procedure, those books will have some good stuff about the adjustments, so I'll surely review them anyway. However, until I have all the parts back on the car I can't do much more than check the compression after every valve adjustment, and those adjustments are cold. It's why I have seriously considered just walking away from it for now until I get ready to the point that I can bolt everything back on and tune it properly.

But I will get that scope out again. And anyone who lives within 8 hours of Fargo, ND, would be welcome to help with the tune-up.

Eric C. Player
Fargo, North Dakota
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and Great Plains Corvair Club.
THEN: 1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow - 1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red - 1966 Monza 110, Purple - 1967 Monza 140, Red - 1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow" - 1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"
---------------------------------------
"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 10, 2021 09:29AM

COLD valve adjust proceedures are in our FAQ's....

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: viewmaster ()
Date: July 10, 2021 11:04AM

Matt,just looked over FAQ's list for "ENGINE" related topics. 3 links for Hot/running adjustment, and not one listing for cold/not running adjustment. Just FYI. I have text Eric, multiple times, re the cold/not running valve adjustment. As cargoes ALL KNOW, a valve adjustment is an art form. You cannot teach "feel" for zero clearance, it is a practiced, experience exercise. Best of luck to you, Eric.

-m

Mike
'65 '500' Sedan 110 PG
'65 Monza Sedan turbo'd 110 SU conversion
Fresno, CA

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 10, 2021 11:36AM

Posted by: rnch
Date: March 20, 2011 02:55PM

TDC will be when the rotor is underneath the # 1 cylinder spark plug wire, right?

then adjust #1 intake, #1 exhaust, #3 intake, #5 exhaust, #6 intake.

i would then spin the engine over until the rotor is under @ 2 spark plug wire contact,

then adjust #3 E, #5 I, #2 E, #4 I, #6 E.

then install the valve covers & gaskets and "fire that sucker up"

There will be some lifter clatter at first until everything pumps up and settles down

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: RobertC ()
Date: July 10, 2021 12:08PM

Aren't the instructions for cold valve adjustment in the 1965 Shop Manual?

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 10, 2021 12:12PM

Sure... but no one looks...

Internet forums....instant gratication!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: July 10, 2021 01:22PM

I don't know how anyone can tell anything by borescope pictures. It's like ultrasound blobs to me.

You can't expect a guy to install a replacement head and have it perform like a major rework.
A proper deep seats and more Machine Shop bill is somewhere north of $1600, probably way north with a turbo head sporting worn out guides. That's just the Machine Shop bill, nothing about R&R or other parts.
That's just heads. You want to talk about forged pistons, boring cylinders and on and on....

Eric doesn't seem to be expecting too much but I'm not so sure about some of the comments.

Some of you people may want to lower your expectations about getting a 50 year old engine running good without rebuilding the whole thing.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: July 10, 2021 01:38PM

Jim,

You're always the calm one. Love it.

Yes, I don't expect much, from myself. It's frustrating knowing how well the car was tuned (I really don't like revealing hard numbers in mixed company, but I will say that prep for the trip was more than $1600), and that since then little things have been giving me big problems, because of my still-miniscule experience (bless you, viewmaster Mike, for your patience). Just enough to be dangerous, as the saying goes. Maybe its just "imposter syndrome."

For what its worth, I used the Cold-adjustment tips from the manual. They are found on pages 6-36 to 6-37. A lot of these books could really used an index, not just a table of contents.

Finally (oh sure, *this* time) I will say that most of us are just trying to keep our Corvairs combustin' and runnin'. No deeper standard than that. I know there are others out there, but that's me. I'm just here to drive.

Cheers,

Eric C. Player
Fargo, North Dakota
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and Great Plains Corvair Club.
THEN: 1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow - 1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red - 1966 Monza 110, Purple - 1967 Monza 140, Red - 1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow" - 1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"
---------------------------------------
"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: Cheepfk ()
Date: July 11, 2021 01:29PM

Jim get's it. There's no replacement for a job done right the first time by a true professional.


The $1600.00 for a tune-up is missing the point entirely.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 11, 2021 01:55PM

No...but if you're "lucky" you can get away for far less time and $$$

Why I have 4 spares, all driven before pulling

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: July 11, 2021 02:02PM

Cheepfk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jim get's it. There's no replacement for a job done right the first time by a true professional.
>
>
> The $1600.00 for a tune-up is missing the point entirely.


All this attitude coming from a guy with YOUR moniker? confused smiley

Seriously, if your had actually read what Eric wrote, (even though he doesn't reveal all that was done,) you will see that $1600 covered a lot more than a "Tune-Up". eye rolling smiley

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2021 02:03PM by American Mel.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: July 13, 2021 03:22AM

Eric, loosen the valves up until they all have a little clearance. Don't bother with trying to get them right. Check the compression with them loose. If you still have zero on some cylinders the engine has to come apart. If the compression comes back then you know you botched the adjustment and just need to figure that out.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 119 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 13, 2021 04:32AM

Eric:

You can find the "zero Lash" rocker adjustment procedure in this discussion.

[corvaircenter.com]

Some people like it, most think it is too involved. It works when doing a reseal of all pushrod tubes.

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Re: YH Carburetor Shake-Apart -- Where Things Stand Currently
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: July 13, 2021 04:37AM

Can't believe no one has asked him to get # 5 to TDC and make sure both valve stems on that cylinder are equal height as seen by valve spring compression height. Both springs should be same height. If one is lower (more compressed with same threads showing above nuts) that seat is not in place in head.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2021 04:40AM by Lane66m.

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