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EFI project
Posted by: DaveO90s4 ()
Date: June 22, 2021 02:50AM

Hi everyone, I have now committed to converting my 140 HP engine to fuel injection. This is in my Porsche 914.

As it currently stands, my reverse rotation engine is fitted with a pair of Zenith 40 TIN carbs and a mallory unilite distributor. At cruise it runs at about 10.5 - 11.5 AFR, and at wide open throttle leans out very nicely to about 13.5. I am sick of trying to get these carbs tuned properly for this engine - there are only so many times that driving out, driving back, changing jets, repeating etc remains entertaining.

In summary the project will be along the following lines:
- ECU will drive fuel injection and spark, via 'wasted spark' approach.
- ECU paraphernalia will be provided by SDS (Simple Digital Systems from Canada). This is now on its way to me with an estimated arrival date of 1 July
- The pretty well inaccessible Mallory Unilite distributor will be removed and replaced with a 'dumb' OEM distributor, the only function of which will be to drive the oil pump (I may leave the rotor and cap on so I can readily see No. 1 TDC on firing stroke for static timing purposes)
- For throttle bodies I will be using Triumph Triple motorcycle 955i bodies (which I've already procured). A bit of thinking required re linkages, but that's a way down the track. These throttle bodies include throttle position switch and vacuum ports (which I may use to connect to a vacuum averaging plenum for manifold absolute pressure load sensing. Not sure about that - more thought required)
- I'm hoping to have a 'throttle body lower flange to zenith 40 TIN head stud & inlet port location' manifold made for me in the next month or so. Interestingly the triumph throttle body centre spacings are very close to the zenith centre spacings on my modified heads so a pretty straight inlet air flow should be readily achievable, along with a nice injector angle
- Because I'm using ITB's (rather than a common plenum manifold) I may well find that I will need to use Throttle Position Switch (TPS) for load determination rather than Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP). The SDS ECU can accommodate either.

The first task will be for me to tidy up all the wiring that I have cobbled together under the dash board to drive a pair of WB O2 sensors, a pair of cylinder head temp gauges, a pair of valves to allow the exhaust pipes to bypass the mufflers (loud!!), the 4 cylinder tach from the 6 cylinder engine and so on. All the wiring works, but it's not pretty, so I will get that all tidied up.

By the way, the 955i throttle body set up seems not too uncommon on Porsche air cooled 6 cyl engines, either to upgrade from carbs or to upgrade from OEM CIS fuel injection to more modern fuel injection - so I hope that putting triumph motorbike throttle bodies on a Chevy engine in a Porsche, controlled by a light aircraft ECU system should not be too problematic (says he ha ha).

Many many thanks to all on CCF who have helped me get to this point - you know who you are. And I'll try not to bother you too much as I try to progress things.

More anon - about to go away for the three day winter holiday 22 deg C yesterday here in Queensland on the shortest day of the year. Great camping weather.

Cheers all

DaveO

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: KenHenry ()
Date: June 22, 2021 06:18AM

This sounds like a really cool project and I look forward to seeing updates on it! I did something similar on my 140hp engine but used a centermount adapter with injector bungs welded into the runners, a V8 Dodge truck throttle body (this simplified the throttle linkage), and EDIS ignition, all controlled by a Megasquirt ECU. I think your approach with the Triumph throttle bodies will much slicker! You might consider one of these DIS plugs from American Pi. It's a little work to install, involving cutting down a distributor shaft to drive the oil pump and setting some clearances, but really cleans up the rear housing. You also need to be careful that the shaft doesn't start to bind inside it as you tighten the mounting bolt:

[www.american-pi.com]

553E0B36-F5EB-4A47-B54B-C7E31E1981FF by kenhenry_06268, on Flickr

For cleaning up wiring harnesses, I've lately been using ClassicBraid from Painless wiring. Here it is installed on my flathead:

81E4F735-C76B-400B-B889-208BFE47883C by kenhenry_06268, on Flickr

Those throttle bodies are from a Ducati. Good luck with the project!! Ken

Ken Henry, Rochester, NY USA
1965 Corvair Corsa
140 hp, 4 speed

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: scooperman ()
Date: June 22, 2021 05:42PM

I will watch this thread. My long term plan is to convert my Zeniths to throttle bodies. Right now thinking Megasquirt and crank trigger. Mine is a little further off in the future, currently doing bodywork and front suspension.

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: doug6423 ()
Date: June 22, 2021 06:09PM

I'll be watching too.
Thanks for doing the thread.

Doug
65 Monza
Cincy, OH

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: DaveO90s4 ()
Date: July 08, 2021 05:54PM

Hi all,

I'm making haste slowly on this. Have still yet to tidy up all my add-on wiring before commencing in earnest.

But my parts are arriving. Throttle bodies and SDS EFI on hand. Inlet manifold adaptors yet to arrive.

More anon.

Best regards

David

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: drb9300 ()
Date: July 08, 2021 06:14PM

What throttle bodies are those?

Thanks,
Dave
CA Central Coast & Los Angeles

1969 Monza-Coupe 140 4-Speed

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: July 08, 2021 06:28PM

drb9300 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What throttle bodies are those?


Zoomed in, it looks like triumph Daytona 955. cool smiley

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: DaveO90s4 ()
Date: July 08, 2021 07:11PM

Yes. 955i triumph triple.

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: solo2r ()
Date: July 08, 2021 07:23PM

This is my 'bolt-on' set up on a 140 done back in 1998. Used Suzuki GSXR 650 throttle bodies separated , Accel DFI, MSD Digital 7 ignition.

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 08, 2021 07:43PM

Mark, does that engine / build still exist?

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: solo2r ()
Date: July 08, 2021 08:16PM

Matt, I sold that set up to a Man who bought my '66 Corsa cvt! He passed away last year and dont know where car is! I think it has only been shown once in these pics! It is absolutely beautiful!

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 08, 2021 08:19PM

Yup, I remember you building that car

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: drb9300 ()
Date: July 08, 2021 08:27PM

DaveO90s4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes. 955i triumph triple.


That’s what I thought.
I like those.
911 guys use those also.

Thanks,
Dave
CA Central Coast & Los Angeles

1969 Monza-Coupe 140 4-Speed

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: Early Guy ()
Date: July 08, 2021 09:09PM

As you can see from my signature pic done about 7 or 8 years ago I fabed my own intake runners out of mandrel bent header pipes. I milled the stock 140 manifolds off to apply a header like flange. I eliminated the distributor with a home made setup similar to American PI. The throttle body and injectors are from a 90s 3 liter Ford taurus. I also used the SDS system. Purchased thru and with a lot of advice from Ray Sedman at American PI. I'm still working out some fine tuning bugs but over all it works great and no more changing accelerator pumps every year.Looks like a fun project keep us posted.


Ray Johnson Villa Park IL 63 Spyder Conv. 140 EFI

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: July 09, 2021 06:58AM

I think it's on the last for sale, all cars and parts, list. Asking a lot of money but it sure looks like it's worth it.

66RTVair
Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza DP Racecar
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: solo2r ()
Date: July 09, 2021 07:50AM

BobV66Vair, Link? I did not see it.

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: RobertC ()
Date: July 09, 2021 08:19AM

solo2r Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BobV66Vair, Link? I did not see it.

Do not think it matches:

[classics.autotrader.com]

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: DaveO90s4 ()
Date: August 02, 2021 05:28AM

Short update:-

Manifolds to mate 955i throttle bodies to 3-port (Zenith 40 TIN) heads are about to be manufactured. The 955i throttle body base is 10 deg from horizontal, with throttle bodies vertical. I hummed and hahed about whether to have throttle bodies vertical (angled base) or angled (horizontal base). In the end I decided to have the throttle bodies angled in the possibly incorrect expectation that that will give slightly better injector to inlet valve angle.

I have now redone all my appallingly bad previous under-dash wiring and to my surprise tye engine still runs and the smoke has not escaped!. I have also found a place for the coil pack in the engine bay and have mounted that (not yet connected to anything)

SDS ECU etc has all arrived and I'm well on the way to determining what I will mount where.

Covid-19 Delta strain lockdown here now, can't travel anywhere really, so I may make the most of this and start the real task of engine removal in the next day or so.

Best regards
DaveO
Brisbane

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: DaveO90s4 ()
Date: August 11, 2021 03:31AM

I plan on mounting my Hall sensor in the vicinity shown in the photo. As you'll see the original mechanical fuel pump is long gone, but the fuel pump jam nut and set screw are still in place. The threaded hole looks like a 'blind' but maybe it is still holding something, like the circular cap? I want to remove the set screw to provide room for the Hall sensor. Any issues with me doing that?

Thanks

Dave

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Re: EFI project
Posted by: Spectre ()
Date: August 11, 2021 03:56AM

Dave, the only thing I see that looks like a set screw in your photo is the shat of the alternator. You can't remove it.

David Clamp


1965 Corsa convertible - 140 4spd/3.55/AM-FM

2013 Mustang GT convertible - 5.0, 6spd auto, Procharger i-1

2003 Miata SE - 6spd manual (wife's toy)

"Victory is mine!" - SG

Norman, OK

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