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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: February 17, 2021 05:15PM

Crusty is an A/C parts car only.

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: February 17, 2021 05:38PM

I have an original fan shroud from an air conditioned Corsa and it has the right side fresh air outlet.

Lee J

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: Harry Moore ()
Date: February 17, 2021 06:07PM

This thread has a good discussion about A/C top shrouds.

It sounds like the shroud shown in this thread was "cut" for a 140 but started life as a 110hp shroud.
[corvaircenter.com]

Thanks,


Harry Moore

66 Monza Sedan 140/PG (first car ever)
67 Monza Coupe 110/4sp/ with A/C (Inherited from my dad)

Southern California - where palm trees don't change color!

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: February 17, 2021 08:42PM

There were never any '67's with a 140 and a/c. The 140's that were built were all on COPO's but oddly enough didn't have it available with a/c. I have a factory piece of literature that proves that.

Both of my '67's have factory a/c and the fresh air duct is on the left side, as were several other '67 a/c cars that I've owned.

The big thing about the solenoid and shroud on the '66-7 cars is that there is a ridge in the shroud that had to be flattened to allow the plunger space to move. Why the fresh air hole was moved is unknown to me.

Here is a picture of the shroud from my project car.

-Mark

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: February 18, 2021 06:02AM

The 67 a/c shroud is the same as the 66 turbo save for the drilled holes for the idle solenoid for the a/c cars. I had a 67 a/c shroud that I am kind of sorry I let go of.

Lee J

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: February 18, 2021 09:18AM

A shroud off a 1966 110HP A/C car did have the flattened rib I mentioned before and the drivers side cold air outlet.

A second shroud I bought with the larger 66 and later bolt holes with the drivers side cold air outlet did NOT have the flattened rib. Maybe just used on the turbo cars.

Two variations of the drivers side cold air outlet shroud I've seen.

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: 2ragtops ()
Date: February 18, 2021 01:03PM

My 66 Monza 140 with a/c power glide has the oval tube on the right side.

I have no way to document if it is original as I bought it 32 years ago from a Corvair guy here in st. Louis

Bob Bauer

Show-Me Corvairs

1966 Monza Convert 140 P/G with A/C, plastic wheel with tele-column am-fm posi-traction
1966 Corsa Convert 180 wood wheel tele-column am-fm sport steering posi-traction
1965 Corsa Coupe Crown V8 temporarily red lined for repair
House Springs, Missouri

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: February 18, 2021 02:40PM

"oval tube on the right side"

Bob, don't you mean ROUND tube on the right hand side? Or is yours like the picture Mark shows (BUT ON THE RIGHT SIDE???)? That would be a style I have never seen before.

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: 2ragtops ()
Date: February 18, 2021 04:04PM

Tim

Your right, I am thinking of my 65 with air.

The 66 has a round outlet, but used the oval tubing to go to the heater box. Only the end is round. Or did I Rube Goldberg it when I restored it?

Is there a cure for getting old and senile?

Bob Bauer

Show-Me Corvairs

1966 Monza Convert 140 P/G with A/C, plastic wheel with tele-column am-fm posi-traction
1966 Corsa Convert 180 wood wheel tele-column am-fm sport steering posi-traction
1965 Corsa Coupe Crown V8 temporarily red lined for repair
House Springs, Missouri

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: February 18, 2021 04:21PM

2ragtops Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Is there a cure for getting old and senile?

Yes, but you REALLY won't like the alternative.

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: February 18, 2021 09:13PM

My question is why do any LM's have the outlet on the right side?

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: Harry Moore ()
Date: February 18, 2021 10:17PM

"67 airvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Why the fresh air hole was moved is unknown to me.
"


Hi Mark,

I have never heard why either. My first guess is that the hose is shorter and this means it is less likely to be torn or ripped. It also has fewer bends that might be more prone to cracking with higher temps because it would be directly next to the A/C condenser or turbo (think surface area to heat ratio). I have never seen engine air temps measured near the hose on turbo and A/C cars when compared to non turbo or A/C cars.....this would be a very cool analysis for the community to do! thumbs up

With turbo and A/C cars the impact of a leaky hose has to be larger due to the extra heat generated by the turbo and A/C, so maybe this little extra security was worth the extra cost of manufacturing.

Just a guess.


Harry Moore

66 Monza Sedan 140/PG (first car ever)
67 Monza Coupe 110/4sp/ with A/C (Inherited from my dad)

Southern California - where palm trees don't change color!

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: February 18, 2021 10:34PM

But why were they ever on the right when they all have the firewall hole on the left? Holdover from EMs?

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: Harry Moore ()
Date: February 19, 2021 01:12AM

Hi Joel,

Here's an HH (Harry's Hypothesis spinning smiley sticking its tongue out):

With the body redesign of 1965 the intent was to do away with the fresh air hose on the shroud. This is why 1965 vairs have the heater box in the rear plenum...this was suppose to replace the fresh air hose off the top of the engine shroud.

During testing it was found not to work (maybe too much moisture or not enough air pressure... ) so at the last moment the engineers reverted back to the early model design because it worked. Since the heater and plastic duct was already developed and fit tightly under the car; the only way to connect the fresh air hose was to make a big sweeping curve from one side of the engine to the other. This is why the hose does not go straight forward from the passengers side of the top shroud (imaging the turbo hose on the passengers side!).

With a 95, 110, and 140hp engine this worked ok. But add the heat from the turbo or A/C then the hose was at risk of becoming too brittle, so a new design was made. Now why did they not make this new design standard....I dont know. Maybe the ability to make most top shrouds universal between early and late had something to do with it. Why does this not fit the pattern from 1966 140hp with A/C...I don't know.

Now if we wanted to, we could look at photos from the test pilot 1965 cars, un-revised versions of the assembly manual, and several 1965 parts and accessories catalogs to try and see what types of changes were made to the heating system during testing. But I dont have access to these types of materials.

Thanks for reading!


Harry Moore

66 Monza Sedan 140/PG (first car ever)
67 Monza Coupe 110/4sp/ with A/C (Inherited from my dad)

Southern California - where palm trees don't change color!

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: February 19, 2021 03:53AM

So it seems in all threads past and present that no one can document an actual 140 A/C engine cover with the cold air exit on the left.

Plenty of people with 95 or 110 engines and factory A/C have upgraded to 140 engines/heads and do you think they searched high and low for a rare 140 A/C shroud that needed a longer hose too or did they just cut two extra carb base notches in the cover they already had? You know the answer. I'm sure that is why the legend continues on that someone saw such a OEM cover long ago. You can look at Cathy's 4-dr 140 with A/C (cold air outlet on the left) and that top shroud sure looks OEM but it is a modified 110 engine A/C cover.

Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
65 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4 w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza Convertible 110/4
66 Monza Convertible 140/4 A/C
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5



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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: February 19, 2021 06:43AM

Hi Harry,

My guess would have something do with the bottom of the '66-7 A/C condenser core rubbing against the air hose. They did put a foam rubber sleeve on that hose to protect it, but they did that on the '67's with the left side turkey roaster outlet as well. Note the attached picture of my convertible. (Note that it has slipped down from under the core.)

Concerning the flattened rib on the later shrouds, and its inconsistency with production installations. Being a retired GM diemaker, I can speculate, given my experience, that once they determined that the clearance was needed for the '66 idle speedup solenoid, that the flat was ground into the line dies wherever needed, the last die so modified being the draw die. Each female section was probably left with the full ridge, while only the male forms were ground flat. It was probably a running change, due to the number of dies that needed changing. In the mean time, stocks of parts made for whatever other changes they needed (140, turbo, a/c, etc.) were run ahead. The change made was permanent and once made, whatever parts made had the change in them, but the stockpiled parts didn't. The stockpiled parts, being special use, were used as needed, until they ran out, and new special items produced with the running change incorporated. The runout dates for each special usage varied, hence the varying iterations showing up whenever they did. It all may sound confusing, but a form change like this which didn't affect the functioning of it in other applications, could be safely integrated as a running change, and often was.


-Mark

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: February 19, 2021 10:21AM

Good comments Harry and Mark.

Harry - the reason the proposed (and fixed with that lid on early 65 model) fresh air inlet didn't work is because --- with the heater lever in the middle (hot and cool mix for warm air) the heater box flapper opens the path from the lower engine hot air hoses with pressurized hot air AND the cold air inlet. without pressurized cool air the pressurized hot air takes the path of least resistance out the fresh air inlet (and right into the engine compartment) - OOOPS! Some engineer got a bad review. So the "lid" was installed on early heater boxes and cool pressurized air was routed from the top of the engine shroud.

If the HEAT lever down fully for full heat it's not an issue, or for "warm" air you have to run the blower fan to force the hot and cool air mixture into the car.

Mark - Your comments about when things changed and "make do" are logical. Plenty of GM manufacturing history to support that. With the model year 66 A/C condenser on the bulkhead the longer hose is subject to damage, even the short hose needs a protective collar at the condenser. Odd they didn't change the 140HP tin to drivers side fresh air outlet on A/C cars.

My cars have A/C and I installed 140HP engines. I rerouted my 140HP fuel lines away from the removed mechanical fuel pump toward the front of the car. That required me to convert the 110HP A/C shroud to a 140HP shroud because the fuel lines did not leave enough room for the fresh air hose from the passenger side. It also looks a lot better.

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: Harry Moore ()
Date: February 19, 2021 01:57PM

66vairman,
Thanks for the details about the 1965 heater issue, that makes sense. I guess the engineer unknowingly created a pre-heat set up similar to a water pumper having a tube from the exhaust to the air cleaner. smiling smiley

Mark,
The running production changes of the shroud makes sense. I dont have engine production data for 1966, but I am curious if there were not enough 140's with A/C built to use up the surplus of shrouds that were already created.
Or maybe it was a case of "I will get to that next week"....and next week never comes.

All this makes more sense for the A/C cars, but for the turbo cars I am still thinking the excess heat from the exhaust pipe might have jeopardized the integrity of the hose.

So this leads to the question of which came first, the turbo or the A/C shroud. smiling smiley


Harry Moore

66 Monza Sedan 140/PG (first car ever)
67 Monza Coupe 110/4sp/ with A/C (Inherited from my dad)

Southern California - where palm trees don't change color!

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: February 25, 2021 09:06AM

I know a fellow with an uncommon 1966 140HP with PG and A/C. It's an original equipment car, not modified.

The fresh air outlet from the fan shroud is on the passenger side. So that's another confirmation.

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Re: WTB A/C Turkey Roaster
Posted by: 66ragcorsa ()
Date: February 25, 2021 07:36PM

I have a 140 Rt side engine sheet metal shroud with a large factory hole near the rear of the car. It came off a factory ac 140 block/engine that was in my car when I purchased it. I would sell it or trade for some non ac 140 sheet metal.

Steve T
Michigan
1966 Corsa Convertible
<a href="[s949.photobucket.com]; target="_blank"><img src="[i949.photobucket.com]; border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a>

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