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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: February 12, 2021 10:30AM

Everything is frozen SOLID.

Except, the Milk Jug. hot smiley

Is it the PLASTIC?
Is there an Anti-Freeze property in Milk-Jug Plastic? confused smiley

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: February 12, 2021 10:35AM

American Mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kevin, I realize that that even cold water fresh out of the tap is considerably warmer than the outside temps.
> But, when I have used the term tap-water, I was meaning in the sense of being domestic supply, rather than from a rain-source.
> As you noted, that jug has been outside, exposed to the elements for over a week.
> I cracked the lid on the jug, as suggested, and it actually took in some air, rather than expelled any, so it was NOT under any pressure.
> The bubble at the top is now larger than it was before.
>
> Joel, our water supply here is provided to us, through a treaty agreement with Canada.
> I would love to blame it on the water, but the water in the yogurt tubs, and the Tropicana jug, are all freezing up, and they are from the same source.
> It is only the Milk jug that is staying liquid even after four days of subfreezing temps.

I wonder if the "milk jug" contaminated the water? Possible milk residue? The is growing concern some plastic containers contaminating the contents. So far the argument is "yes, but it's so minor it doesn't hurt people".

How about changing the "milk jug" water and seeing what happens.

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: February 12, 2021 10:42AM

Being a "Used" jug, there is undoubtedly a minor amount of "Contaminants".
But, that being said, I hate the smell of spoiled milk, so when ever I finish a jug of milk, I always rinse it out, and let it sit upside down in the sink to drain & dry out.

If the are contaminants in the jug, it has got to be extremely minute amounts.

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 12, 2021 10:42AM

Wow!! You folks are definitely BORED!! ggg

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: February 12, 2021 10:49AM

YEP!
It has been a long quarantine, and the forced hibernation from this cold weather is NOT helping.
Pondering the great mysteries of life, is the only thing keeping me sane. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 12, 2021 10:49AM

Two other "Water Techs"???

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: February 12, 2021 07:51PM

One last experiment?? maybe bring your miracle jug inside for a few hours to warm it up, then put it back outside. The contaminated milk jug theory does have some merit but I think the only way you could test that would be to go to the store, and get a jug of distilled water, then dump it out, then re-fill with your tap water, and put that outside also. The other experiment with bringing the non freezing jug inside for a while is to test the idea that perhaps, perhaps, when the jug was initially placed outside it had plenty of time to slowly cool down, and by the time the freezing temps started, it was so close to freezing that heat transfer from the milk jug to the surroundings had become so inefficient, that it would take a LOT longer to freeze, and its extra volume and mass would then just make it stay liquid through the period of sub freezing temperatures. Its been observed many times that hot water freezes faster than cold water when placed into the same cold environment at the same time, I wonder if that is what is going on.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: February 12, 2021 08:02PM

Do you happen to have a hydrometer to test the specific gravity of the milk jug liquid?

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: irfgt ()
Date: February 13, 2021 02:41AM

I don't believe I would be drinking any more of your tap water.

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: Chilly Willy ()
Date: February 13, 2021 06:19AM

Without a formal education in physics,or googling it winking smiley I’d say it is about the mass and the energy it takes to remove the heat.




The Corvair, Keeping Nader Notorious winking smiley


Will
Northern California

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: Jim Stukenborg ()
Date: February 13, 2021 08:32AM

Mel, Do you have a deep freeze? If so, put the jug that won't freeze in the deep freeze and see what happens. Jim

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: February 13, 2021 12:15PM

Chilly Willy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Without a formal education in physics,or googling it winking smiley I’d say it is about the mass and the energy it takes to remove the heat.

Six days sitting in subfreezing temps, there shouldn't be any thermal energy (heat) left in there.

Jim,
No, the only freezer I have is the small box at the top of my fridge.

Okay, update.
Just rechecked status.
It started snowing last night around midnight.
Snow still falling.
The jug has a little snow piled on, and around it.
Contents, now turning to slushy ice mixture.

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: February 13, 2021 04:26PM

Mel -just for accuracy's sake... for any temperature above absolute zero, all substances have heat in them... just not as much as at higher temperatures. Also, I've been keeping track of the temperature here as well as where you are at as we are close to the same temps as Pt. Roberts, I dont recall seeing where it actually stayed below freezing for 24 hrs. This may be why that jug of water didnt freeze until your latest observation... it needs a lot more time below freezing to begin freezing, just because its a relatively big container, relative to your other containers.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: February 13, 2021 04:54PM

Not sure where you got your figures from, but I am nestled in an upper elevation area amongst some tall Cedar, and Fir trees. We tend to run cooler than the open areas.
My location has sustained temps in the twenties this entire week.
I take my measurements here at my house, not some weather station by the seashore.
I have watched the temps through-out the day, and even check the outside temps, when I have gotten up during the night.
I have gotten identical temp readings from multiple thermometers.

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: February 13, 2021 05:12PM

Fair enough. My readings were coming from our Airport, inland from where I am

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: February 13, 2021 05:17PM

We hit a sweltering 34 today. None of the ice melted.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: guthrie1068 ()
Date: February 13, 2021 05:19PM

The solution to this mystery is that it ain't that cold there. Yeah, its below freezing, but the temp is changing enough that it isn't getting the whole gallon cold enough to freeze. On top of that, any movement of the water in the jug extends the amount of time that it takes to freeze, even just a small vibration keeps the water moving ever so slightly. And, wind chill does not affect inanimate objects.
Remember when you had to actually fill ice cube trays and put them in the freezer? It took hours for the freezer to make ice cubes, and those are only 1 oz. and freezers are 0 degrees, not 25 degrees. Put 128 ounces in there and it takes a lot longer, and it's a lot colder in the freezer.

Chad Guthrie
Onondaga, MI
'63 convertible

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: ken ()
Date: February 13, 2021 05:22PM

I think you answer lies somewhere in this video .[www.youtube.com]

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: February 13, 2021 05:25PM

Sounds good Chad.
But SIX days ? ? ? confused smiley

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

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Re: OT, Curiousity I don't understand cold VS COLD, I guess. confused smiley
Posted by: guthrie1068 ()
Date: February 14, 2021 04:29AM

Sure, imagine putting the gallon next to a pond and see how long it takes the pond to freeze after the gallon is frozen.

Chad Guthrie
Onondaga, MI
'63 convertible

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