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Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: Peacemaker ()
Date: January 11, 2021 08:39AM

I'm replacing the alternator on my '66 Monza 140 with A/C and wanting to upgrade to a 65 amp Hi Output unit with internal regulator. In researching options I went to my two favorite vendors, Clark's and California Corvairs, and it appears they both have Hi Output 65 amp models that are listed as New GM/Delcotron models. However, in looking at the pricing, there is a rather significant difference in price even after including shipping and tax. Am I misreading this? If not, what could account for the large difference in prices? Anyone have experience with the Hi Output units from either of these vendors?Thanks!

Gary

1968 Corvair Monza Convertible (Fathom Blue/Blue)
1966 Corvair Monza Coupe Madeira Maroon/Black)
1964 Corvair Monza Convertible (Daytona Blue/Black)
1997 Jeep Wrangler (TJ) Sport (Flame Red) - DD

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: January 11, 2021 08:47AM

I see roughly a $35 difference in price without shipping. Is that what you're seeing?

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: Peacemaker ()
Date: January 11, 2021 08:51AM

I'm seeing $139 as they're listed. Am I missing something?

Gary

1968 Corvair Monza Convertible (Fathom Blue/Blue)
1966 Corvair Monza Coupe Madeira Maroon/Black)
1964 Corvair Monza Convertible (Daytona Blue/Black)
1997 Jeep Wrangler (TJ) Sport (Flame Red) - DD

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: January 11, 2021 08:57AM

This has been covered many times over the years, but worth looking at again.

I also have a 66 140HP with A/C and use the internally regulated alternator.

The LM Corvair used an externally regulated alternator type 10DN with a UNIQUE to Corvair front housing and fan.

Delco made a internally regulated alternator type 10SI. It has the same housing bolt pattern as the 10DN. IF you have mechanical skills you buy a rebuilt 10SI for GM car with A/C (63Amp).

Remove pulley and fan from 10DN and install on 10SI.

NO WIRING CHANGES are required IF you use one of the GM 10DN to 10SI wiring kits. M&H Electrical Fabricators #27555 kit is plug and go.

If you are not mechanically inclined buy a converted unit.

DO NOT use so called "1-wire" converted alternators.
DO NOT use high output 100Amp alternators. Some put out less amperage at lower RPM vs. the Delco 63Amps and the 10DN Corvair fan was cooling capacity is 80Amps (and that's not on a hot day!)

Others will add to this and you'll find lots of information in the FAQ's here.

As far as pricing goes --- was the difference in price due to a core charge?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2021 09:01AM by 66vairman.

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: January 11, 2021 09:10AM

Peacemaker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm seeing $139 as they're listed. Am I missing something?


Me thinks the difference in price you're seeing is in the refundable core.
$30 vs. $135.

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: Peacemaker ()
Date: January 11, 2021 09:21AM

Wagon Master - Ah, I see that now. Interesting how there's such a difference in how they each handle core charges/refunds. Thank you!

66vairman - Thank you for the info! Some of your posts on this subject were very helpful in me settling on the 63 amp internally regulated. How much less expensive is buying a rebuilt 10SI and doing the swap with the 10DN as opposed to purchasing a new Hi Power unit?

Gary

1968 Corvair Monza Convertible (Fathom Blue/Blue)
1966 Corvair Monza Coupe Madeira Maroon/Black)
1964 Corvair Monza Convertible (Daytona Blue/Black)
1997 Jeep Wrangler (TJ) Sport (Flame Red) - DD

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: pvholgado ()
Date: January 11, 2021 09:22AM

thumbs up

66vairman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This has been covered many times over the years, but worth looking at again.
>
> I also have a 66 140HP with A/C and use the internally regulated alternator.
>
> The LM Corvair used an externally regulated alternator type 10DN with a UNIQUE to Corvair front housing and fan.
>
> Delco made a internally regulated alternator type 10SI. It has the same housing bolt pattern as the 10DN. IF you have mechanical skills you buy a rebuilt 10SI for GM car with A/C (63Amp).
>
> Remove pulley and fan from 10DN and install on 10SI.
>
> NO WIRING CHANGES are required IF you use one of the GM 10DN to 10SI wiring kits. M&H Electrical Fabricators #27555 kit is plug and go.
>
> If you are not mechanically inclined buy a converted unit.
>
> DO NOT use so called "1-wire" converted alternators.
> DO NOT use high output 100Amp alternators. Some put out less amperage at lower RPM vs. the Delco 63Amps and the 10DN Corvair fan was cooling capacity is 80Amps (and that's not on a hot day!)
>
> Others will add to this and you'll find lots of information in the FAQ's here.
>
> As far as pricing goes --- was the difference in price due to a core charge?

"A sign of great intelligence is being able to say 'I don't know'"
1966 Corsa Turbo Coupe
Located 25 miles East of Rochester, NY

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: corvairsince70 ()
Date: January 11, 2021 10:07AM

Why does one want a high output alternator on a Corvair? The 35 amp unit is sufficient and if you want more output get the 47 amp heavy duty alternator that was optional for a Corvair.
I am not seeing it.

Dennis
Nashville area

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: January 11, 2021 10:44AM

I am running a 47 AMP original type, though the case is still stamped 35. Many of the remanufactured are now rated 47 AMP and it really doesn't cost much more to convert them to 47 AMP and only carry one type in inventory. AND yes I did test it with a run down battery and everything turned on. It was showing almost 50 amps with the gauge I was using.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: January 11, 2021 10:51AM

Maybe owners moving to the 63 amp internally regulated alternator, experienced or heard all the problems with the external regulator/alternator and didn't want those problems. That is the main reason I went to an internally regulated alternator. Reliability over overcharging issues that will occur sooner or later with the external regulator which could take out more than just the regulator or alternator.

Al
Georgia

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: January 11, 2021 11:38AM

I suppose that is true now with with all the junk out there these days. I am running a solid state external reg since the 80s with zero problems. I purchased a spare at the time. Its still in my trunk.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: Brizo ()
Date: January 11, 2021 12:03PM

Lane66m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe owners moving to the 63 amp internally regulated alternator, experienced or heard all the problems with the external regulator/alternator and didn't want those problems. That is the main reason I went to an internally regulated alternator. Reliability over overcharging issues that will occur sooner or later with the external regulator which could take out more than just the regulator or alternator.

I my experience the 10 DN alternators with mechanical regulators have been amazingly trouble free and dependable. The majority of LM Corvairs in our club are still running the original regulators.

Dan Brizendine, Circle City Corvairs
'64 8 door Greenbrier, +.060 stroked 186 ci.140 PG. "In beautiful Wanamaker Indiana...with one stop light and 5 pizza shops"

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: January 11, 2021 12:28PM

corvairsince70 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why does one want a high output alternator on a Corvair? The 35 amp unit is sufficient and if you want more output get the 47 amp heavy duty alternator that was optional for a Corvair.
> I am not seeing it.

The original poster wants more amperage because he has an A/C car. Yes there was an 47Amp factory alternator on A/C cars, BUT --- my system is R134a which requires extra cooling fans on the condenser to keep compressor head pressures in the safe range.

Alternator amperage ratings are MAXIMUM, not what your going to get at lower RPM. With my A/C on high the 63Amp unit barely keeps up with demand when the car is stopped in traffic, and I use LED tail lamps to reduce amperage demand.

Even the old R12 systems will cool better when sitting in traffic with condenser cooling fans, but they are not required for R12 because it's pressure per given temperature is lower vs. R134a.

Finally - the old original 10DN alternator is a great unit, the main issue now is with cheapy voltage regulators. The "better" external solid state regulators work, but beware of cheap units. The repro electro-mechanical regulators are inferior based on experienced with club members cars and what I've read posted here.

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: CoCoCo ()
Date: January 11, 2021 01:37PM

And I would guess that some people just like the cleaner wiring setup (and perhaps simpler troubleshooting?) of an internally regulated unit. Yes, it's still got a regulator, but when you're replacing the old worn out wiring under the hood, it seems like a good time to re-visit just how you want it laid out and how you want it to look.
One less "thing" hanging around under the hood is a selling point for many people.
As is more headroom with a higher potential output for future mods like high-output lights, larger heater fan motor, high-amp sound system, electronic ignition and EFI?

Paul

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: oldqmguy ()
Date: January 11, 2021 02:12PM

Having been an "electronic nut" long before I became a "Corvair Nut" I went with the 65 Amp Internally Regulated Alternator to 'accommodate' the 'extra' electrical items I will be adding.

External Regulators and Generators worked fine in their day, but things improve over time.

I have my custom Dakota Digital Dash with GPS Speedometer unit and will be installing EFI soon (I am collecting parts!). Hopefully I will get around to the Radio and other electrical 'stuff' inside the car!

JMHO!

Dale cool smiley

Dale E. Smiley CPBE
Life Member The Society of Broadcast Engineers
RETIRED Broadcast Engineer
CERTIFIED CORVAIR NUT
CORSA/Circle City Corvairs/Corvair Performance Group
Avon, Indiana
WB9SFF
1967 4-Door Monza PG!

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: TerribleTed ()
Date: January 11, 2021 03:33PM

I like the 10Si conversion because it is simple and a LOT cheaper than getting an original unit rebuilt, not to mention it charges better. I buy the higher quality 10SI units here in the parts store for about $50 after core. I have no external regulator to deal with and 63 amp charging. I do not use the plug and play adapter plug preferring to clean up the wiring and eliminate the big 4 wide regulator connector. Have a charging problem in the future as long as the rewiring is done well (I tend to solder and heat shrink all connections) and it is just a matter of getting another cheap 10SI, swapping the end frame and fan and installing it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Avid Corvair hobbiest since 1984.
I have personally performed ground up restoration on over 20 Corvairs.
I currently work full time at restoring and repairing Corvairs.
Located in the Atlanta Georgia area.
[www.facebook.com]

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: Peacemaker ()
Date: January 13, 2021 01:40PM

I've received my "new" internally regulated 63 amp alternator and now am ready to install it into my '66 Monza 140. I have a connection question. I'm told both red wires connect to the terminal on the back of the alternator. Where does the white wire connect?

Here are pics of the "new" alternator and the wiring/plug in my '66 if this helps.

Thanks!

Gary

1968 Corvair Monza Convertible (Fathom Blue/Blue)
1966 Corvair Monza Coupe Madeira Maroon/Black)
1964 Corvair Monza Convertible (Daytona Blue/Black)
1997 Jeep Wrangler (TJ) Sport (Flame Red) - DD

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: January 13, 2021 02:28PM

@ Gary/Peacemaker

There are two approaches to wiring an internally regulated alternator, one uses original wires and the other is a bit of a "rewire" job. Either approach requires elimination of the original voltage regulator.

The first schematic shows how to do it retaining all the original wires.

The second schematic shows the "rewire" approach.

One thing's for sure: You can't just attach the old wires to the new alternator.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: January 13, 2021 02:42PM

Another wiring diagram to help. Got to do it right or it will have issues.

Al
Georgia

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Re: Help...Hi Output Alternator Options and Costs
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: January 13, 2021 03:03PM

Al, what if his is a 2 door or a 500?

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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