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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: January 01, 2021 07:37PM

I have wondered where this is going, too.

My first couple of cars weren't really mine, they belonged to my dad. I just rode in and enjoyed them. In grad school in the early 2000s, I bought some for the fun of the drive, but still didn't understand a lot of what was going on under the hood. I drove all but one of them them into the ground with my ignorance.

I've learned more in the last 3 years owning my Bluvair, than I ever knew before. I'm not a guy who can tear an engine down and then build it up better than before--yet--but I have been gratified in discovering I really CAN learn something new, when I was worried my ability to learn had peaked back there somewhere.

I think the future of the hobby might be guys like me: lovers of the car as a toy, who grow to take on the love of the challenge. In that respect, the influx of new Corvair owners (even the ones who've never picked up a wrench) is nothing but good.

And I tend to believe that the ICE still has a lot of life left in it. But then I run on nostalgia.

____________________________________________

Eric C. Player, Fargo, ND, USA
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and the San Joaquin Valley Corvair Club. Those may change. winking smiley
THEN:
1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow
1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red
1966 Monza 110, Purple
1967 Monza 140, Red
1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow"
1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW:
1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"

"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: January 02, 2021 05:42AM

It's interesting that the Corvair Ranch has been selling body panels. Mine just sit there, I figured no one is smashing them up anymore. I do get calls for body parts that need to be cut off, unfortunately rust is why mine fall into parts car territory.

There's a bit of a market here for EM Corvairs as something cheap to drive into Back To The 50s Show. It's '64 and older to keep out the '64 1/2 generation of cars.

I don't begrudge the free stuff and find it admirable that the stuff will be used. It just got me to thinking about Corvair parts in general. Waxing philosophical so to speak.

I do begrudge the fellow who wastes my time looking for something so he can get a price so he can know if he's getting a good deal somewhere else. It sort of goes with the territory I suppose and silver lining is that it helps me get a little more organized.

It's interesting that the hoohaws and doodads are often worth more than the heavy components.

Truth be told I have a lot of Corvair stuff because I have a rescue mentality. Much of it came to me for little or nothing. The value added as far as I'm concerned is the time and space involved in keeping it. It's like the free cat that isn't so free once you start going to the Vet and such.

I've made friends with my local scrapper guy. He's tickled pink when he can back in under a stuck '61 80 HP on a come-along.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: MonzaDave ()
Date: January 02, 2021 08:39AM

The Corvair has a major factor working against it that will likely keep it from ever being a main stream collector car -- its drivetrain. Try and find someone to work on the drivetrain. I live in Rochester, Minnesota and as far as I know, the closest shop willing to work on a Corvair is 114 miles away. And when I wanted a performance engine build, I went to Gary Funkhouser in Dayton, Ohio.

By contrast, if I want work done on my SBC '73 Nova, there are several shops in town that are more than willing to work on it. When I bought the car 16 years ago, my plan was an engine performance upgrade. I ended up not doing it because the original 350 was in such good shape -- compression of 195 on all cylinders. Had I decided to upgrade, the biggest problem would have been -- which of many crate engines to use? And I could have bought a killer engine for less than I spent on my Corvair engine build.

In the case of a sale, the nuts-and-bolts Corvair restomod would bring about 1/3 of what I have spent on it. And the Nova in which I've spent very little would bring about as much as the Corvair. I don't regret one penny of what I've spent on the Corvair -- but . . .

My advice to anyone considering buying a Corvair is "don't" -- unless you're willing and able to do most of the work on your car. Or unless you live close to one of the rare Corvair shops.

Dave Keillor
Rochester, MN

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: Gatorfly ()
Date: January 02, 2021 09:14AM

MonzaDave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Corvair has a major factor working against it that will likely keep it from ever being a main stream collector car -- its drivetrain. Try and find someonesmileys with beer to work on the drivetrain. I live in Rochester, Minnesota and as far as I know, the closest shop willing to work on a Corvair is 114 miles away. And when I wanted a performance engine build, I went to Gary Funkhouser in Dayton, Ohio.
>

Yeah, but we’ve got the “cool” factor and unlike all those “other” clunkers out in classic car land, we’re helping to save the planet by being waterless smileys with beer

San Juan Islands, WA

1965 Monza Coupe 110/4 Evening Orchid/Black (2nd Owner)
1966 Corsa Coupe 180/4 Marina Blue/Blue

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: eddieb ()
Date: January 02, 2021 11:38AM

i agree whole hardly with Monza Dave. It won't be to far down the road when I let my '60 sedan go. Now how hard is it going to be to sell a plain Jane '60 "500" sedan, I say nearly impossible even with it's great documented history. If I decide to get back in to old cars it will be something by AMC. EddieB Dade City,FL

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: Gregg Peters ()
Date: January 02, 2021 12:47PM

Jim; I think part of the problem is that our cars are not getting any younger and were not real popular due to a smear campaign against them. We are not getting the younger car enthusiatists because when they are ready to start collecting cars they're going to look for the cool cars of their youth, not some "unsafe" car from the sixties. I'm not going to make my car a 100% concours show car (although I do love to see them when I can) I am looking to keep my car mostly stock yet still drivable. As for your parts, maybe while you are sorting through them you determine if they are usable as is, need some work, or scrap. And yes, you do need to raise your rates.

Gregg
Braham MN.
Former: 1969 500, 95 pg
Current: 1968 Monza 140/4 resurrected byJim B. in Isanti, MN

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: January 02, 2021 02:12PM

Having just finished a full resto on a Corvair, I really can't say what drives the cost of restoration, NOS parts, newly made parts, used but restorable parts, doesn't matter, it seems. They all cost, and it all adds up. The problem only exists IF you ever go to sell the car. It costs the same to do a convertible as it does a coupe, or 4 door, and it costs the same for a Corvair as any other car of that general era. Faced with resale prices, that makes restoring a Corvair, especially, say, a 4 doorlike I did, a bad investment, as investments go. I'd have been better off doing a Convertible muscle or pony car. But since I'll never sell it, it doesn't matter to anyone but my heirs.

And that, in a nutshell, pretty much sums up why everyone wants a turnkey car, and Corvair restos are few and far between. The up and coming enthusiasts are only interested in cars they remember, just like all the generations before them. But none of that matters to me, as I did the resto for ME, and no one else. I only hope I live long enough to get that much value out of it. For ME, that is.

-Mark

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: January 02, 2021 05:06PM

I might be the guy who is 114 miles from Dave in Rochester.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: January 02, 2021 08:15PM

I would give just about anything I have to anyone trying to get a car going. No charge, just happy to help. But to give to someone who just wants to put it on a shelf or sell for a profit? No thanks.

_________________________________________
Ryan Counterman (Moderator)
1965 Corsa Kelmark V8 400 HP ///1965 Monza Sedan 110/PG /// Ultimate Corvair Hauler/// Don Eichstaedt's 1965 Corsa Racecar
West Michigan Corvair Club /// 1966 Corsa GTP Convertible Mid Engine 3.8L Supercharged project stalled

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: 61SuperMonza ()
Date: January 02, 2021 09:25PM

When I think about the future of Corvairs and there place in the collector car market I think it is promising. I agree that they will always trade for less than muscle cars from the era but there is nothing like them at the shows. I get more comments about my Monza than any other car I've owned.
The Nader stigma fades with every year. I get more comments from the younger crowd about my car.
Corvairs a Niche vehicles,they always have been. The difference will be that those who want a quality example will be willing to pay for it.
I do agree that if you don't enjoy doing your own maintenance than you should look elsewhere.
It's funny to me that a collector car owner wouldn't do his or her own work. That's what bonds you to your ride.

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: January 02, 2021 09:59PM

61SuperMonza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I think about the future of Corvairs and there place in the collector car market I think it is promising. I agree that they will always trade for less than muscle cars from the era but there is nothing like them at the shows. I get more comments about my Monza than any other car I've owned.
> The Nader stigma fades with every year. I get more comments from the younger crowd about my car.
> Corvairs a Niche vehicles,they always have been. The difference will be that those who want a quality example will be willing to pay for it.
> I do agree that if you don't enjoy doing your own maintenance than you should look elsewhere.
> It's funny to me that a collector car owner wouldn't do his or her own work. That's what bonds you to your ride.
>


Quite true!
I still Laugh every time I think about one particular Cruise-in at a Burgerville Drive-in, in PDX several years ago.
I got placed between a '69(?) Mach One and an older classic Vette(no idea of year).
Both were in absolutely GORGEOUS condition.
The Vette looked like it was a perfect time capsule collector car, and the Mustang was a PERFECT nut&bolt restoration. (The guy probably had 80 grand into it. It was nice, even if it was a furd.)
Any way as the evening wore on the Mustang owner got mad and left early.
He was absolutely fuming by the time he drove right through the crowd of wandering onlookers, forcing them to scramble to safety between the parked cars, he then burned rubber out onto the street and was gone.
Why was he so angered?
Because people were ignoring his Baby!
Yep, they were walking right past his Mustang without so much as a sideways glance, and stopping to gather around my lowly little, unrestored, daily driven, Corvair. grinning smiley

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry
[corvaircenter.com]

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: MonzaDave ()
Date: January 03, 2021 08:31AM

JimBrandberg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I might be the guy who is 114 miles from Dave in Rochester.

I think you might be right, Jim. I, too, have a parts problem. I have several thousand dollars (retail price) of new parts that I've accumulated in the course of many projects. They are all cataloged under Clark's part numbers, so that should make it easier to get rid of them.

Dave Keillor
Rochester, MN

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: January 03, 2021 09:25AM

In the 25 years I owned my Texas car, I had but one guy have a negative comment about it. He told me that there was "only one thing wrong with it. It has too many doors." HA! He's just jealous. The most memorable comment on it was when, at one show, somebody said they didn't know they made them with 4 doors. I told him that when they first started making them, that's ALL they made. grinning smiley But overall, it otherwise always got favorable remarks, especially from the younger crowd, some of whom had never heard of its connection with (you know who).

I'm anxious to get my long-awaited Arizona (formerly project) car out on the car show circuit. It's stock enough to be thought of as such by the unknowing, but custom/showy enough to (I hope) be of interest to those in the know. Either way, I think it will draw attention, and maybe make fans of some of the public, maybe even get some of the younger crowd into Corvairs.

-Mark

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: January 03, 2021 12:16PM

Hello all and best wishes for a good 2021. I debated joining in this thread and decided I would try to say only a little.

First in the vein that Ken Hand and Jim B added in the beginning now that the new year has rolled over I only have until April 1 to begin my 55th year here at the shop. I have always been busy and frankly I am not ready to stop.

Next thing free parts is great. I would rather see them saved than just tossed to scrap because no one wants it today. OR it is free but I won't ship.

As far as the continued interest in the Corvair I don't see a big decline at least as of yet. The Corvair probably dropped the most in the 80s. Today as already stated there interest because of high price of other cars and we still have decent parts outlets.

Last words: unlike many of you I have owned and used Corvairs since 1963. I have driven a Corvair (or Corvair powered) every day since 1966. The only other cars I have owned since then was an old Dodge PU and now the old Jeep for days the snow is too deep for the minimal ground clearance. My work car (the 67) sits outside. If it is below zero I find the car under the ice and start it warming up. Granted the kit car/Crown car and 68 are tucked away. I used the spyder to over 500K miles as everyday car plus trip car. It has rust everywhere now.

Enough from me, just a die-hard Corvair owner. (until they pry the keys from my hand)

Sorry all, longer than I intended.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC/V8 Registry

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: Cheepfk ()
Date: January 03, 2021 02:21PM

I agree that the Nader thing is fading over time.
Seems that a few Corvair owners are actually the ones keeping it going with
the Nader-type license plates, stickers and T-shirts.

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: gbullman ()
Date: January 04, 2021 04:19AM

I have really enjoyed reading this thread as someone that is transitioning from more mainstream classic cars to my second Corvair (1st one was my daily driver for about 4 years when I first got my license in the early 70’s).

I recently sold my 55 Chevy 210 with its original 265 and Powerglide and will soon be selling my 79 MGB that isn’t all that original. In my mind the Corvair combines the fun of the MG and the go anywhere, road trip utility of the 55.

I have been pretty active in forums for each of those cars and can’t help but notice some similarities here with the sentiments in the MG forum as far as being a bargain collectible. I feel fortunate that my Corvair has been well cared for all these years and should give me years of enjoyment.

Luckily I can do most of the maintenance I know will be required myself. Not sure if there are any Corvair specialists within a 100 miles or so of me which would make it a challenge if I couldn’t do my own work. I needed to be fairly self sufficient with both of the other cars and honestly I probably have more experience working on Corvairs but that experience was some 45 years ago.

I hope the parts and specialist situation for Corvairs stays viable for the foreseeable future since I clearly intend to drive mine as much as I can.


Gary
1966 Corsa Convertible
Northern New Jersey


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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: January 04, 2021 05:26AM

I have full faith that repro parts will be available for the foreseeable future. Clark's is incorporated, so will live on past Cal and Joan as a corporation. I only wish I was in their will, or they'd adopt me. LOL

As far as NOS parts, they are already getting hard to find, so we're lucky that Clark's is willing to repop many parts that I doubt they'll ever get their money out of what it took to repop them, But there's still some parts that they haven't repopped that I wish they would, like the LM rear door front upper corner weatherstrip molding. Or the LM side windlace (the part that goes down the inner roof rail pinch weld strips or behind the front door panel on the 2 door lock pillar.) And I'd like more authentic parts on some of the repops they have done, like the LM rear door window weatherstrip. (It requires true attention to detail in order to work properly.)


Just some thoughts on parts.

-Mark

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: FoiledAgain ()
Date: January 04, 2021 08:29AM

Keeping parts in circulation and fostering interest in Corvair among youngsters are the two most important things to undertake to keep the marque relevant. Passing along advice, things learned from School Of Hard Knocks is also key.

Corvair's underdog status is part of its charm- not the kind of thing one wants to hear while sitting on several tons of parts, I understand that- but after many years in VWs and early musclecars, and BMW and early Honda cycles it's pretty refreshing. That it is such a good car is icing on the cake.

I and an old friend were talking about this just yesterday, he's a 356 Porsche guy. Didn't get into Porsches believing they'd be insanely valuable one day, he just liked them and was good at fixing them. Far less enthusiastic about Porsche owners but that's another conversation.

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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: January 04, 2021 08:48AM

FoiledAgain Wrote:
Far less enthusiastic about Porsche owners but that's another conversation.

I agree, that's why I don't own a Porsche. No offense to members of this group who are also Porsche guys. It all goes to back when I was young and so was my car. I tried Pa hill climbing for a while. No Porsche turbos at that time, and they didn't take kindly to being beaten be my lowly Corvair. It was a perfect venue for the car. Steep hills with tight turns where the turbo could really come alive. Also, courses not long enough to cook the engine.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Corvair Futures
Posted by: FoiledAgain ()
Date: January 04, 2021 08:57AM

Me, to another Porsche collector*, while we look over my beat-up Corvair: "This is as close as I'll ever get to owning a Porsche".

Porsche guy: "Believe me, you'll be happier and faster".

*4 356s, 2 coupes and 2 Speedsters

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