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140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: November 29, 2020 06:10AM

We're putting together a 140 for a El Corvino project.
We were planning to make low profile air cleaners using EM cans and welded together tops.
On another project my buddy seems to think even the stock 140 4-leg is restrictive but perhaps may just be that it needs risers over the carburetors to smooth out the flow.
All this has me wondering if the low profile EM would be restrictive. It's a fair amount of work if they're not the ultimate goal.
Just how much clearance is there between the carburetor top and the engine cover?
I suppose the brace on the engine cover subtracts 2" of available space. Perhaps a guy could notch that back if it is never expected to support a load.
Is there room to fit the cone shaped K&N individual filters? I suppose they're about 3" high, maybe a little more when devising a PCV at one of the bases.
I do have a Van here I could use for measuring but was hoping someone who's been through it could save us some time with researching. There must be some "140 in a FC" guys here and I wonder what you did for air cleaners.
Another buddy has a pair of triangular Edelbrock air cleaners but he raised the engine cover a few inches. We don't want to do that.
You'd think there might be something motorcycle that might fit 1.25" carburetor tops but I'm not real good at Internet searching. Again I'd like to lean on your previous experiences.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: Westds ()
Date: November 29, 2020 08:55AM

This was my solution

Using a late single crossover welded to the stock air cleaner.

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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: November 29, 2020 12:08PM

I was thinking along those lines. It looks great.
Do you think it flows enough air under high demand?
Do some people use parts from 2 EM tops?
Is there a new provision for a j-bolt or something else?
PCV to both air cleaners. I don't see a PCV valve so there must be a fixed orifice tube?
I like the way the vacuum balance tube swoops under the throttle rod and over the fresh air hose. Is it a stock one shortened on the left side or did you make one and weld on a bracket?

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: November 29, 2020 12:11PM

I have seen those filter housing on Wes's car.

They are gorgeous...he should market them!!!

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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: Westds ()
Date: November 29, 2020 04:55PM

Thank you Phil for your kind remarks about my air cleaners. The balance tube is stock however I do not know what year engine it came from. It was important for me to have the crankcase vent go to both sides. It is a fixed orifice vent. The engine seems to be happy the only negative is when you floor it you hear the air being sucked into the air cleaners. Because of the 180 degree mounting of the cleaners ( one forward and one to the rear) I cannot get a inlet tube between them.

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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: Westds ()
Date: November 29, 2020 05:16PM

I forgot to address the J bolt question. Here are some more shots of the build. The hole for the J bolt is drilled into the side of the choke rod casting on both secondary carbs. This shaft housing is blind on secondary carbs.

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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: November 29, 2020 06:39PM

That looks great and may be the best option to keep it under the stock cover.
I don't think there is any way it flows very well since the factory LM setup does better with stand off tubes. I know that changing from EM filters to LM seems to give a seat of the pants improvement even on a 145ci. That obviously isn't the slightest bit scientific. It would be interesting to see some dyno numbers on various air cleaner setups.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: beau388 ()
Date: November 29, 2020 07:06PM

I used a 110 crossover and welded it to the early model air filters. My opinion on air flow is the right angle turn just before the carb top causes sufficient turbulence to effect the venturi flow. Turning fins would be the answer if there is a height limitation. The more elegant solution would be 4" to 5" velocity stacks.
Jim Davis

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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: November 29, 2020 07:10PM

Turning fins?

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: November 29, 2020 08:52PM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Turning fins?


I believe he is referring to vanes within the airflow to direct the air into the desired path.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry
[corvaircenter.com]

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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: January 12, 2021 06:25AM

My buddy was over yesterday fabricating the air cleaners using EM tops with a LM extension. He's doing a nice job. Our plan is to install spacers between the carburetor top and the air cleaner to smooth out the airflow once we install the engine and see what kind of underhood clearance there is. Right away the LM section on the Secondary gets some extra length by virtue of straightening out the angle.
I like the idea that if the flow is insufficient at least the Primaries get first gasp on both sides.
He's changed the name from "El Corvino" to something else but I can't remember exactly, "El Corvair" or El Corvairo" maybe... It would be nice if he started a build thread but that's his business. Sometimes we can get a little critical. Right off the bat he's not exactly doing it the way I would do it. The nerve...

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: isucorvair ()
Date: January 12, 2021 07:05AM

Jim -
I think the instructions for the early model modded air cleaners for 140 engines are in the Tech Guide (#1, I think), and may have been authored by CMI's own Fran Schmitt.


Eric P.
DeWitt, IA

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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 12, 2021 07:50AM

Early Weber 2bbls fit under the FC engine cover, even with raised carb bases.

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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: January 12, 2021 11:16AM

There is more room in an FC than in the wagon.



Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon Ted Brown EFI Gen II
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: January 13, 2021 05:40AM

SpyderMan wrote

"There is more room in an FC than in the wagon."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's good to know. I measured a Van when I was looking at K&Ns.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: January 13, 2021 07:09AM

I wonder if you could shave 1/8" or more off the bottom of the carburetors?

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: January 13, 2021 07:20AM

Don't forget the engine moves some relative to the cover.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: Brizo ()
Date: January 15, 2021 10:49AM

I did have to notch my FC engine cover reinforcement bar. First to clear my 140 air cleaners, but also because I have double insulators under the carbs and the entire drivetrain has been raised to correct the rear wheel camber after lowering.

Dan Brizendine, Circle City Corvairs
'64 8 door Greenbrier, +.060 stroked 186 ci.140 PG. "In beautiful Wanamaker Indiana...with one stop light and 5 pizza shops"

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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 16, 2021 05:56AM

Guys, you are not going to like this info but is has been shown that any of the designs that are out there do not have sufficient flow at WOT. One of the things that happens is the primary carb actually goes rich, (might be lean, been a long time since I looked at this), due to increased air flow over the top of the carb.

It's really hard to explain exactly what happens but essentially the carbs try to rob one another of the air.
The other air cleaners all look nice and work somewhat OK under normal conditions.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: 140 In A Lakewood Air Cleaners
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: January 16, 2021 05:59AM

What other air cleaners?

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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