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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: November 21, 2020 09:38AM

I think Ted gave good advice about checking panel fit BEFORE painting a car. It was not a put down, just good advice.

A buddy who did body work as a young man taught me to make templates to check one side vs. the other. It takes time, but can be very helpful.

My LM convertible looked fine until I found filler in both the engine lid and rear fender. Whatever body shop filled panels did a good job, but up close you could see an issue, but most didn't notice it.

A quick check, but it may be difficult to do, is borrow another engine lid you know is good to check your fender. I was lucky and had two cars and that process saved me a lot of guesswork.

When I started the body work I installed the engine lid from my other good car there was a 3/8" gap with the back fender area as you have. I ended up replacing the engine lid AND had to use a body shop hydraulic ram to align the fender, that and some rigorous body hammer work got things aligned.

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: November 21, 2020 09:48AM

O.K. Pictures can be deceiving, but the tail lamp appearance suggest they were hit (out of alignment). That would indicate the tail lamp panel and maybe the fender are off.

Both my cars had the "crooked" tail lamps.

My one car only needed a little adjustment of the rear panel, on the other car the fender and engine lid were bent as previously stated.

If possible find a good LM to measure the engine lid perimeter distances for a reference.

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: pvholgado ()
Date: November 21, 2020 11:16AM

Not for nothing but the old lid fit perfect- yes, I see some evidence of rear panel damage now- BUT why did old lid fit and new one has a raised edge - doesn't make sense to me that fender or rear panel is cause of raised edge.

"A sign of great intelligence is being able to say 'I don't know'"
1966 Corsa Turbo Coupe current being "refurbished"
Located 25 miles East of Rochester, NY

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: RobertC ()
Date: November 21, 2020 11:52AM

pvholgado Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BUT why did old lid fit and new one has a raised edge -

Because the body guy MADE it fit.

Just like Ted described it earlier - about fitting panels.

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: pvholgado ()
Date: November 21, 2020 11:53AM

I'm ready to listen-- and I'm willing to give anything a try short of stripping and re painting. P


dryenko Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would like to make a suggestion , but am not ready to be yelled at by the armchair thought police.
> Thanks Ted for trying to help.
> BC

"A sign of great intelligence is being able to say 'I don't know'"
1966 Corsa Turbo Coupe current being "refurbished"
Located 25 miles East of Rochester, NY

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: RobertC ()
Date: November 21, 2020 12:26PM

pvholgado Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> short of stripping and re painting. P
>

No easy way out.

If you are going to raise the fender to stock height - and repair the damage by the pass brake light.

The paint will be damaged. Because you are "moving" / "stretching" metal.

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: TerribleTed ()
Date: November 21, 2020 12:43PM

pvholgado Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not for nothing but the old lid fit perfect- yes, I see some evidence of rear panel damage now- BUT why did old lid fit and new one has a raised edge - doesn't make sense to me that fender or rear panel is cause of raised edge.


The old lid was bent to fit or was damaged in the previous accident. If you eye ball the gap between the rear body panel and the lid (evident in you photo as well) you can see that the gap between the 2 gets wider and wider form almost the center of the rear body panel. This is consistent with the rear body panel damage. the rear body needs to be pulled out and perhaps up a little and the 1/4 panel pulled up at the rear to match the height of the lid which I believe is pretty straight at the moment.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Avid Corvair hobbiest since 1984.
I have personally performed ground up restoration on over 20 Corvairs.
I currently work full time at restoring and repairing Corvairs.
Located in the Atlanta Georgia area.
[www.facebook.com]

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: November 21, 2020 12:54PM

At this point in time since the paint is done the easiest thing to do would be try and bend the lid. The damage will still be there in the rear panel and the fender but the goal is to make the lid match the fender. You could make the cardboard pattern of the old lid to see where it is bent and try to match that. By blocking up the lid and pushing down on the edges it should be doable. You might need a helper to hold down on one side of the lid as you push on the other. Good luck and go slow and it should be alright.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: pvholgado ()
Date: November 21, 2020 03:31PM

This is what I'm thinking too. Just need confidence and a plan. Thanks, Phil

RexJohnson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At this point in time since the paint is done the easiest thing to do would be try and bend the lid. The damage will still be there in the rear panel and the fender but the goal is to make the lid match the fender. You could make the cardboard pattern of the old lid to see where it is bent and try to match that. By blocking up the lid and pushing down on the edges it should be doable. You might need a helper to hold down on one side of the lid as you push on the other. Good luck and go slow and it should be alright.

"A sign of great intelligence is being able to say 'I don't know'"
1966 Corsa Turbo Coupe current being "refurbished"
Located 25 miles East of Rochester, NY

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: November 21, 2020 05:53PM

A shame to bend a good engine lid, not to mention you'll have to use body filler to cover up the panel warp marks from bending it.

Just me but fixing the panel and fender would be a better approach.

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: November 22, 2020 06:52AM

What RexJohnson said X2!

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: TerribleTed ()
Date: November 22, 2020 08:35AM

Hey since you painted the car over unrepaired dents already it does not really matter. Just put a block of wood under the center of the lid and use a big hammer and another block of wood with a towel under it to protect the paint to beat the corner down. Might just look like another painted over dent if the lid distorts. It will of course make it more difficult for someone to really repair and paint the car correctly in the future as they will have yet another spot of misshapen damage to fix.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Avid Corvair hobbiest since 1984.
I have personally performed ground up restoration on over 20 Corvairs.
I currently work full time at restoring and repairing Corvairs.
Located in the Atlanta Georgia area.
[www.facebook.com]

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: November 22, 2020 09:02AM

My 2 cents, looking at the tail light area at 10 to 11 o'clock there seems to be bondo. Maybe its just lighting. I would attempt to pull or push that area up and back a little before bending the lid. Even if it doesn't totally correct it, you can still form the lid. I have a HF frame straightener, so easy for me to say. Maybe you can borrow one. If not hook up a chain and a come along to a tree and pull it up and back.


[www.harborfreight.com]

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: TerribleTed ()
Date: November 22, 2020 11:20AM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My 2 cents, looking at the tail light area at 10 to 11 o'clock there seems to be bondo. Maybe its just lighting. I would attempt to pull or push that area up and back a little before bending the lid. Even if it doesn't totally correct it, you can still form the lid. I have a HF frame straightener, so easy for me to say. Maybe you can borrow one. If not hook up a chain and a come along to a tree and pull it up and back.
>
>
> [www.harborfreight.com]

Yup a porta power like the one linked pushing against the front engine compartment firewall below the R hood hinge and against the rear body panel right at the corner of the opening where the 1/4 meets the rear body may indeed help. If you do this be sure to watch the spot at the front where the porta power is pushing from and make sure it is not bending instead of at the rear body. A piece of 2x4 or something to spread the load at the firewall will help.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Avid Corvair hobbiest since 1984.
I have personally performed ground up restoration on over 20 Corvairs.
I currently work full time at restoring and repairing Corvairs.
Located in the Atlanta Georgia area.
[www.facebook.com]

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: pvholgado ()
Date: November 22, 2020 12:27PM

hummm... interesting-- I think this might be worth a try- thanks

"A sign of great intelligence is being able to say 'I don't know'"
1966 Corsa Turbo Coupe current being "refurbished"
Located 25 miles East of Rochester, NY

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: November 22, 2020 02:29PM

Even if you don't have the tool, maybe your paint guy does. Also, you might be able to use some wood blocks and a simple bottle jack between the spare tire mount and the dented panel.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: November 24, 2020 12:38PM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My 2 cents, looking at the tail light area at 10 to 11 o'clock there seems to be bondo. Maybe its just lighting. I would attempt to pull or push that area up and back a little before bending the lid. Even if it doesn't totally correct it, you can still form the lid. I have a HF frame straightener, so easy for me to say. Maybe you can borrow one. If not hook up a chain and a come along to a tree and pull it up and back.
>
>
> [www.harborfreight.com]

I agree and that is the tool I used and it has come in handy a number of times. Also works well to "square" the engine compartment frame the seal goes in.

Just my experience but I've found a LOT of Corvairs that got smacked in the rear panel. Usually the proper use of a hydraulic ram saves the panel and fender corner, easier than replacing it.

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: red monza ()
Date: November 24, 2020 01:38PM

1st of all..I am not a body man, but have done all the body work on 4 of my cars and painted 2 of them in my gravel driveway. I have also been asked to fix a quarter panel on an ex MUSEUM 64 409 IMPALA based on my fixing my 64 conv wheel wells. That being said....

I would remove the rear light assemblies on the R side, I would also get a scrap 8X8 and put under the car reaching up from the floor to the inside engine compartment panel to support a bottle jack/porta power, then use two pieces of 2X4 top and bottom under the fender and engage the jack to raise the corner of the R rear fender.By pushing up on the low fender, it should also make it longer. Go very very slow. It might need to be raised just a little more above the engine lid as it will more than likely relax when you remove the jack. You may have some cracking of the paint depending how much hardner was in the paint. Good luck...Ted was correct and I am sure you will fit the panels before painting the next time...but YOU are not the first paint and put it together first...lots of us out there and lots more to come.

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: pvholgado ()
Date: November 24, 2020 02:12PM

This sounds like it could work but I'm having trouble visulizing the set up- what keeps me from just lifting the entire car with the jack- how do you put a 2x4 "top and bottom"-- sorry for my ignorance. but thanks for the advice. Phil

red monza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1st of all..I am not a body man, but have done all the body work on 4 of my cars and painted 2 of them in my gravel driveway. I have also been asked to fix a quarter panel on an ex MUSEUM 64 409 IMPALA based on my fixing my 64 conv wheel wells. That being said....
>
> I would remove the rear light assemblies on the R side, I would also get a scrap 8X8 and put under the car reaching up from the floor to the inside engine compartment panel to support a bottle jack/porta power, then use two pieces of 2X4 top and bottom under the fender and engage the jack to raise the corner of the R rear fender.By pushing up on the low fender, it should also make it longer. Go very very slow. It might need to be raised just a little more above the engine lid as it will more than likely relax when you remove the jack. You may have some cracking of the paint depending how much hardner was in the paint. Good luck...Ted was correct and I am sure you will fit the panels before painting the next time...but YOU are not the first paint and put it together first...lots of us out there and lots more to come.

"A sign of great intelligence is being able to say 'I don't know'"
1966 Corsa Turbo Coupe current being "refurbished"
Located 25 miles East of Rochester, NY

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Re: Engine lid adjustment after replacement
Posted by: TerribleTed ()
Date: November 25, 2020 08:56AM

red monza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1st of all..I am not a body man, but have done all the body work on 4 of my cars and painted 2 of them in my gravel driveway. I have also been asked to fix a quarter panel on an ex MUSEUM 64 409 IMPALA based on my fixing my 64 conv wheel wells. That being said....
>
> I would remove the rear light assemblies on the R side, I would also get a scrap 8X8 and put under the car reaching up from the floor to the inside engine compartment panel to support a bottle jack/porta power, then use two pieces of 2X4 top and bottom under the fender and engage the jack to raise the corner of the R rear fender.By pushing up on the low fender, it should also make it longer. Go very very slow. It might need to be raised just a little more above the engine lid as it will more than likely relax when you remove the jack. You may have some cracking of the paint depending how much hardner was in the paint. Good luck...Ted was correct and I am sure you will fit the panels before painting the next time...but YOU are not the first paint and put it together first...lots of us out there and lots more to come.

The rear body panel mostly needs to go out and maybe up a little. A good enough angle might be possible with a bottle jack or porta power between the bottom of the accessible firewall under the engine lid hinge angled up to the rear body panel just above the tail lights. The low area of the 1/4 panel could also be pushed pretty much straight up with similar equipment used between the rear crossmember and the underside of the low are of the 1/4 panel (push under the weatherstrip channel are not under the single thickness steel of the top of the 1/4 panel). The description above (best I
can tell) would require engine removal.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Avid Corvair hobbiest since 1984.
I have personally performed ground up restoration on over 20 Corvairs.
I currently work full time at restoring and repairing Corvairs.
Located in the Atlanta Georgia area.
[www.facebook.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2020 08:57AM by TerribleTed.

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