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For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: TedBrown ()
Date: November 17, 2020 09:49AM

Like many after-market makers of parts and products, we put as a liability statement "For Off-Road Use Only" on our documents, website, etc. I had a potential customer call and ask...So I cant use fuel injection on the road?

So that got me thinking, so I called my car buddy and PI attorney and asked about the statement. He says it's to limit the liability from a product you put on your car causing damage to another vehicle. He also added, he thinks it's pretty worthless and a legal challenge would cost more than the company is worth. Either way, you are out of business....I'm like great, so keep building until I get sued and then hand the keys over... Not that simple, but he said pretty much.

He said the most important thing is not to co-mingle assets with personal so they cant attach personal property.

I know they are others on here that make parts, etc, and thought I would pass it on.

Ted

**NEW** Dual TBI KITS are now available through Clarks Corvair 1 Jan 2021
**2 & 4 TBI units are available through Corvair-EFI.com
Ted Brown
Anderson, SC
[www.Corvair-EFI.com]
Brown Injection Facebook
68 Monza Convert Auto - EFI
61 Loadside - PGlide - EFI
61 Rampside - 4 speed - EFI
61 Greenbrier 4 speed - EFI
61 Greenbrier 4 Speed - Bad Motor

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: November 17, 2020 09:57AM

It is a sad commentary on people's character in our country.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 113 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: Spectre ()
Date: November 17, 2020 10:17AM

We are too lawsuit happy in this country. If someone accidentally runs into me, all I want from them is to repair/replace my vehicle, pay for any medical, and pay for any lost wages. I feel my net gain/loss should be zero. Now, if they did it on purpose, or loss of life or limb is involved, that does up the stakes a bit. Hard to put dollar values on those.

David Clamp


1965 Corsa convertible - 140 4spd/3.55/AM-FM

2013 Mustang GT convertible - 5.0, 6spd auto, Procharger i-1

2003 Miata SE - 6spd manual (wife's toy)

"Victory is mine!" - SG

Norman, OK

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: November 17, 2020 10:27AM

Well, given the opportunity politicians and bureaucrats will regulate anything. I once had a speaker from Dana-Spicer speak to our group of parts sellers. He used an example of ladders. This was in 1980 so imagine how much worse it has gotten by now. He explained that the number of warning stickers required on a ladder got so large that they had to make the ladders rails wider and longer to accommodate them. Truly an attempt at idiot proofing. There is no fixing stupid.

A better tip is that when I owned businesses, I always created LLC's for each aspect so that anyone who sued could only get a small piece if they won. Usually lawyers look at their potential gain from suing and pass on the lawsuit/

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: doug6423 ()
Date: November 17, 2020 10:40AM

My dad owned a body shop and had to layer who owned what.

I think 'He' owned the land and then leased the land to an LLC who owned the buildings. And the shop, which was incorporated, leased the buildings from the LLC.

Not 100% on this but something like this. Long story short, he owned it all in one form or another, and then did the rest to help isolate himself from potential lawsuits.

Doug
65 Monza
Cincy, OH

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: oldqmguy ()
Date: November 17, 2020 10:45AM

I never liked reading Shakespeare in school, but he did make one statement that applies today - "In order to have a successful revolution, first, kill all the attorneys!" drinking smiley

We have reached a point where "suing someone" is better than fixing the problem! angry smiley

Dale cool smiley

Dale E. Smiley CPBE
Life Member The Society of Broadcast Engineers
RETIRED Broadcast Engineer
CERTIFIED CORVAIR NUT
CORSA/Circle City Corvairs/Corvair Performance Group
Avon, Indiana
WB9SFF
1967 4-Door Monza PG!

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: November 17, 2020 10:55AM

smoking smiley







1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)

-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

Attachments:
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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: November 17, 2020 11:02AM

davemotohead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> smoking smiley


grinning smiley hot smiley grinning smiley hot smiley grinning smiley hot smiley grinning smiley hot smiley grinning smiley hot smiley grinning smiley hot smiley grinning smiley hot smiley grinning smiley hot smiley
hot smiley grinning smiley hot smiley grinning smiley hot smiley grinning smiley hot smiley grinning smiley hot smiley grinning smiley hot smiley grinning smiley hot smiley grinning smiley hot smiley grinning smiley

Dave, that is SO SO SO TRUE ! ! !

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: TedBrown ()
Date: November 17, 2020 11:18AM

Don't get me wrong about suits... they all have places. Long story bearable.

I had Lasik surgery in 2005, during the procedure, the machine malfunctioned, removed my Cornea, and unknown till lately damaged my lens. The facility and doc were horrified, I was sent to MUSC to reattach my Cornea and hope for the best. I got most of my vision back, but it was like looking through vaseline. I was out of work for 3 months and never had good vision in that eye.

I was advised by an attorney to bring suit and get what we could. I opted for an attorney that got my lost wages, workers comp rate for the loss in vision, and money for future surgery if it became available. This was all done without bringing a suit and was between us and his insurance company. I was told I was lucky to have what I did...and I moved on. I did have perfect vision in my left eye.

Fast forward to 2018: I was basically blind in my right eye and no eye doc wanted to talk after hearing my story....because of legal reasons. I by chance went to a new eye doc and had him exam me without telling him the story. After a long exam, he said he could fix my eye and scheduled surgery for the following Monday. I thought this is too good to be true, but I really didnt have much to lose.

It turned out that my lens and cornea had both been damaged during the Lasik and he installed new lens and repaired scar tissue in my cornea. 3 days later I had 20/30 and I can see out of both eyes perfectly. I went a long time with poor vision in that eye, but so happy now I can bearly keep it in.

Suits are a double edge sword and I feel Karma paid me back for the way I handled it.

Ted

**NEW** Dual TBI KITS are now available through Clarks Corvair 1 Jan 2021
**2 & 4 TBI units are available through Corvair-EFI.com
Ted Brown
Anderson, SC
[www.Corvair-EFI.com]
Brown Injection Facebook
68 Monza Convert Auto - EFI
61 Loadside - PGlide - EFI
61 Rampside - 4 speed - EFI
61 Greenbrier 4 speed - EFI
61 Greenbrier 4 Speed - Bad Motor



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2020 11:19AM by TedBrown.

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: November 17, 2020 04:04PM

From what you stated in your first post is why I have a business checking and e everything in my name attached to the business. The most anyone could ever get was useless Corvair parts and at most only half of the house worth worst case scenario.

I have only been sued once. It was a draw as all of the funds I got from the job went to a lawyer but I didn't lose.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: Backin66 ()
Date: November 17, 2020 08:10PM

Thanks for sharing Ted and all. I share your sentiments. Had situations where I was encouraged to sue but tried to use best judgement as you have. But thanks to all of you small business guys for continuing despite the risks! The community is lucky to have you.

GeorgeW
66 Corsa
SE Ct

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: doug6423 ()
Date: November 18, 2020 09:52AM

Backin66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for sharing Ted and all. I share your sentiments. Had situations where I was encouraged to sue but tried to use best judgement as you have. But thanks to all of you small business guys for continuing despite the risks! The community is lucky to have you.

Absolutely!!!

Doug
65 Monza
Cincy, OH

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: bought1 ()
Date: November 19, 2020 04:49AM

The worst is people who sue knowing it is a lost cause. Waste of everyone’s time.

Dave



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2020 04:50AM by bought1.

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: November 19, 2020 06:37AM

TedBrown Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like many after-market makers of parts and products, we put as a liability statement "For Off-Road Use Only" on our documents, website, etc. I had a potential customer call and ask...So I cant use fuel injection on the road?
>
> So that got me thinking, so I called my car buddy and PI attorney and asked about the statement. He says it's to limit the liability from a product you put on your car causing damage to another vehicle. He also added, he thinks it's pretty worthless and a legal challenge would cost more than the company is worth. Either way, you are out of business....I'm like great, so keep building until I get sued and then hand the keys over... Not that simple, but he said pretty much.
>
> He said the most important thing is not to co-mingle assets with personal so they cant attach personal property.
>
> I know they are others on here that make parts, etc, and thought I would pass it on.
>
> Ted


Ted,

I sent you a PM...

Take care, Tony

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: November 19, 2020 09:44AM

While were on the "liability" discussion. How many belong to clubs that ARE NOT set up as a LLC to limit liability to members?

I departed one club after a "club picnic" when a nice older gentleman stepped off a patio with no guard rail and fell backwards three feet to the ground. He was a little bruised, but no major damage to himself and didn't take any action against the club and it's members. However he could have, especially if seriously injured.

A buddy who works in quality control and company contract liability said states laws do vary, but for the most part ALL the club members can be held financially liable if the club is not an LLC.

The club managers argued against doing an LLC because, "We would have to file for a tax number and pay taxes and that's too complicated". This was years ago, but I looked into the regulations. Under Federal tax law a "Hobby club" can request a tax number and as long as the club has modest income there is NO requirement to file a tax return (or any additional paperwork). When the club gets a tax number you can file for an LLC and get a bank account under the club name. Few lawyers are going to come after a club with minimal assets.

BTW When you have to sign a contract saying basically "If you use our services or product you cannot hold us liable and if you don't sign you can't use our product or services" is illegal and rarely works if the complaint is legitimate. However my buddy said many enterprises find it cheaper to settle "nuisance lawsuits" versus the cost of going to court.

Keep in mind laws change all the time, but something to think about.

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: Spectre ()
Date: November 19, 2020 10:16AM

The club in Georgia was set up as a non-profit for tax purposes.

David Clamp


1965 Corsa convertible - 140 4spd/3.55/AM-FM

2013 Mustang GT convertible - 5.0, 6spd auto, Procharger i-1

2003 Miata SE - 6spd manual (wife's toy)

"Victory is mine!" - SG

Norman, OK

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Re: For Off-Road Use Only
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: November 19, 2020 01:13PM

Same here, I was the vice president then president of a ski club for many years. We had some lawyers in the club that helped getting us incorporated. We ran a lot of ski trips and summer events like white water rafting. It was a close knit group, but it was only a matter of time till someone got injured and was looking for $$$. The club and particularly the officers were at a huge financial risk. We also only kept a small amount of funds in the treasury to limit the size of the bullseye.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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