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Re: Actual HP numbers
Posted by: CoCoCo ()
Date: November 21, 2020 05:12PM

I'll say! Not only a fairly quick appointment but a very reasonable cost too, in this day and age.
But likely that's due to them not having to tune the car right then and there, and just needing a readout. A dyno tune can run into the several hundreds of dollars and more. Depending on what you've got of course.

Cool report. Glad you got in so quickly.
I can't read the actual values, but assume that top line is the torque? Interesting how it's peaked so early and just heads down from there. Very gradually, so not a bad loss, but interesting to see nevertheless.

Thanks for the update.
Now for the long wait until the new stuff goes in!

Paul

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Re: Actual HP numbers
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 21, 2020 06:07PM

vairmech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MattNall Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Ken that's old news! like 8 years old!! GG
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Yeah, but you are talking turbo and this is normally aspirated!

==========================================


No Ken! post... As per the topic and OP, We are talking of "Guestimated /BS numbers..

And it looks like HE went out, spent $50 to answer his own thoughts!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Actual HP numbers
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 21, 2020 06:26PM

alphasud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was testing a 65 Corsa 140 engine as stock with exception to a Sprint style DUAL exhaust. Timing set to 16BTDC INITIAL, and mechanical advance was verified. Carbs were cleaned and new kits installed last year. Carbs were recently checked for balance and wide open throttle. I ended up with 73HP at the wheels and a peak torque of 116 ft/lbs. The HP peak was at 4300 rpm’s. and after that things started falling off. This at least serves as a good baseline as I intend to run at the same dyno when I get the new engine built and installed. Also take note of the A/F ratio’s during the run. It’s definitely not starving and if anything a slight correction could be made to lessen the high speed enrichment as it dipped to 11.5:1.
> All in all a fun exercise to do and a $50 well spent.
================================================================

It sure was! NOW TO DETERMINE WHAT TO CHANGE TO MAKE THE ENGINE PERFORM MORE TO YOUR LIKING / USE.....

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Actual HP numbers
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: November 21, 2020 06:36PM

One thing I wonder about, is the altitude and air temp it was done at. A lot of shops "correct" hp numbers when they are run at non standard conditions, and others dont. I can see both points of view on that. Some think that when "correction factors" are applied, they are BS'ing the numbers, others think that the test is more accurate when done that way. Its easy to see how dynos can produce such large differences in numbers on the same engine!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Actual HP numbers
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: November 21, 2020 07:05PM

I was looking at the chart for temp and altitude. Looks like 48 degrees f, That should show a higher HP than 72, but the date is 2007 if I am reading it correctly

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Actual HP numbers
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: November 21, 2020 07:40PM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was looking at the chart for temp and altitude. Looks like 48 degrees f, That should show a higher HP than 72, but the date is 2007 if I am reading it correctly


You did read that correctly, I can see it plainly on my screen too.
BUT, I am guessing that the operator just does not have his Clock/Calendar set on his computer.
My reasoning on this?
The time is showing 11:35 PM!
I don't know too many shops that are operating at that time of the night.
Not saying it isn't possible, just not very common.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry

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Re: Actual HP numbers
Posted by: alphasud ()
Date: November 21, 2020 09:32PM

Right, the operator needs to change the CMOS battery in his computer. The conditions were 48 degrees 28.29in of mercury at 44% relative humidity. Then it says STD 1.03 which I take to be the correction factor. So my goal is to build another engine as this was bought to put a basket case together so I could enjoy until I had the funds to restore the car. So my thoughts are tribute heads with deep seats from TK knobby, forged pistons, cam TBD, fuel injection either retaining the carb bases or milling them to accommodate triple TB’s, and better exhaust.
The company offers simple dynometer runs like what I did today and $75 per hour to use the dyno for tuning purposes. Which I think is more than fair. It’s a Dynojet dynometer that was bought from a NASCAR team. Talking to the guy he said his dyno breaks a lot of hearts. Claimed horsepower and measured are in most cases way off.

David North Idaho
1965 Corsa Turbo converted to 140
1971 Super Beetle with 2.5L Subaru engine
1965 Corsa mid engine project
1973 Mercedes 280 project

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Re: Actual HP numbers
Posted by: chris ()
Date: November 21, 2020 10:21PM

So true! I still remember Rod saying "bring your tissues" to the dyno session. Thanks for the update. I hope to do the same with mine sometime and will update as well.

'65 Monza 4 door
4 speed
110hp
Gardner, KS

Heart of America Corvair Owners Association

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Re: Actual HP numbers
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: November 22, 2020 08:34AM

Every 140 I have Dyno'd put out at least 90 - 100 hp to the wheels.







1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)

-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: Actual HP numbers
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: November 22, 2020 08:54AM

Actual power= at the rear wheels, and although theres a large difference in "gross" hp, and net and rear wheels, there is something wrong with the engine if it only making 75hp. Subtracting 20hp for alternator and fan, and then another 20hp for the differential would put it at 100 hp at the rear wheels, and this is not unusual to see on a stock 140 irrespective of the dyno type. There can be even bigger differences if it is a "inertia" dyno vs a load bearing dyno, but sheesh, to be down another 25% says that something is not right. The reason this is important is to get a proper baseline, otherwise gains made from the modifications are going to be equally bs, because some underlying condition was fixed plus improvements, vs testing improvements vs a stock engine. I got to see this first hand last year. A 3.1 liter roller cam 140 with triple throat webers was dynoed on a intertia dyno and only got something like 95 or 98 on that dyno. It was supicious for a lot of reasons. It turned out that the cam had slipped almost 15 degrees! after that was resolved it made 130, on the same dyno. It is flat ass IMPOSSIBLE for that 3.1 liter engine, mods and all to make 73% more power than stock, if that 75hp is what is expected for a stock 140 in good condition on that dyno.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2020 08:58AM by MattNall.

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Re: Actual HP numbers
Posted by: RobertC ()
Date: November 22, 2020 09:58AM

Another test of HP is the 1/4 mile drag.

Of course, you have to have a good reaction time to get a good time.

In the late 80's, I went to the grudge night drags with my Corvair mechanic - his son (new license) wanted to go drag racing. His father drove / ran a AA Fuel dragster in the 60's.

Ran my 140 - stock except for 4 primaries (really does not change the max horsepower) - approx 85,000 miles on the engine (memory).

My Corvair mechanic and I managed a couple best runs at 18.0 - 18.1 sec @ around 77 mph.

Most of my runs were slower. Tough for me to get a good reaction time.

65 road test quarter mile time is 17.7 secs.

Best time / speed was running through the lights in 3rd gear - approx 5700 rpm by tach. Shifting to 4th was slower - both time and speed.

Doubt this engine / car will match that.

Yes, there are many things you can do to get more HP out of a 140.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2020 10:41AM by MattNall.

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