Corvair DiagramCorvair Photo
Corvair Center
home forum corvairs calendar links Corvair Podcast
California Corvairs
Clarks Corvair
Clarks Corvair
“CORSA"



Chevy Corvair License Plate
Chevy Corvair Chrome Wheel
Corvair Center Forum :  Corvair Center Phorum The fastest message board... ever.
Corvair Center 
Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: LeadFootLogan ()
Date: October 15, 2020 09:01PM

I was wondering if anyone has done the air cooled 911 fan on their Vair on here. If so, what does it take to do the conversion? Is there a kit?

1965 Corsa 140 4spd
Arlington, Texas

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 15, 2020 09:15PM

Racers use it. Not enough cooling flow at idle in other words at low engine speeds.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: October 15, 2020 09:17PM

Get a Nash Fan. thumbs up
Superior flow through the ENTIRE RPM range.
I thought he was taking orders recently on a second run of them?

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: LeadFootLogan ()
Date: October 15, 2020 09:24PM

I’ve heard that you can do the Porsche conversion for 500 or so dollars. I’d rather put the 1k towards something else.

1965 Corsa 140 4spd
Arlington, Texas

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: LeadFootLogan ()
Date: October 15, 2020 09:29PM

Also do keep in mind that I’m building my Vair for autocross and circuit use.

1965 Corsa 140 4spd
Arlington, Texas

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: CoCoCo ()
Date: October 15, 2020 09:51PM

Does the Porsche fan use less hp to turn at higher rpm, or does it just cool better at higher rpm?
Seems like it would be a lot of work, but I've often lusted after one as well, if just to get the straight belt routing.
It's true that I've never had any real issues with the stock belt routing, but it does seem better to have stuff just come straight off the crank.

Good luck however you get yours set up.

Paul

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: October 15, 2020 09:52PM

The Nash Fan flows more air and higher pressure.
It is SUPERIOR.
Not only to the stock Corvair fan, but also to the Porsche fan.
Yes the Corvair arrangement has bends, but it has worked for OVER fifty years.
If it ain't broke, why "Fix It" ? ? ? confused smiley
If you are really going to push your engine, wouldn't you rather have the best cooling available?
Hey, if you are just looking for an excuse to install something that you think Looks Cool, just go ahead and do it, you don't need an affirmation to do that.
But if you really are looking for the best cooling option (for street, OR track), than drop the coin and get the Nash Fan!

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2020 09:56PM by American Mel.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 15, 2020 10:10PM

LeadFootLogan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’ve heard that you can do the Porsche conversion for 500 or so dollars. I’d rather put the 1k towards something else.

=================================================

More like $1500! Some racers will chime in with a better number, surely.

Custom fan /stand [ engine case-top cover ] shroud/ Housing and the Belt drive, etc.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: October 15, 2020 10:26PM

LeadFootLogan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’ve heard that you can do the Porsche conversion for 500 or so dollars. I’d rather put the 1k towards something else.

Nope! Michael Leveque has stated it is 1750 for the conversion. Remember, it is not just a fan... different alternator, 3 different custom pulleys, a custom shroud, and this uses a 20.00 Austin fan. This set-up DOES NOT work well at low rpms, like seen in street cars.

Another approach uses the same custom stuff but uses a carbon fiber axial fan with the blades aimed to spin in the Corvair direction... these fans are 950.
they are still not that great for a street car. Because of the fan laws and the deep stall that all axial fans have at low speeds... if the fan is to spin fast enough to take care of the low rpm cooling well enough, it will be spinning so fast as to use too much power at high rpms... 20% more over the equivalent centrifugal fan. Its just the way it is. Its the same reason that radiator fans that are direct drive off the crank all used 30-40 hp at 5k, and now are not run like that anymore. It worked out fine for Porsche but literally everything else was made to work together, and they always used bucketloads of oil cooling, always had really efficient cylinder fin designs, and had really low aerodynamic loads on the engine at speed, and a really funky ignition timing curves. Good luck getting all this to work well on a Corvair and have it use less power than my fan does!! aint gonna happen!!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: October 16, 2020 04:54AM

The Porsche fan is a cool idea but theres more than a few problems, first the fan pitch is opposite than what you need, so you can reverse rotate your motor and go backwards ,or you can install a Hewland transaxle with the reverse rotate motor and go forward like Jon Brakee, or you could mount it facing forward with a jack shaft.It does have the alternator built in so thats cool. the last thought you could build a serpintine belt to turn the fan correctly.
Best bet for a fan upgrade would be the Nash Fan

1965 Crown V8 Racer
1964 Bill Thomas Monza Replica Racer
1964 Spyder Street Car
1979 Mazda RX7

Mike Levine

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: October 16, 2020 06:19AM

I tried some Porsche 911 parts I got from Jon Brakke. He was clockwise rotation with a Hewland, I tried it counter-clockwise with an Austin America plastic fan. It didn't work well I think largely because I didn't have an alternator in the center so the air was blowing into a "cup". To be fair I didn't give it enough effort.

I then went to a Charlie Clark aluminum housing with the Austin fan which was good. I had a small alternator on the side that is also the belt adjustment. It runs on an additional smog or AC pulley, I can't remember which one offhand. Some guys just use an idler pulley and charge the battery between sessions.

My final version involved sending the aluminum housing to Tom Knoblauch. He lightened it considerably and improved the airflow direction at the same time. He made an aluminum fan too. It has been fabulous. I've never had occasion to run it at slow speeds but it sure kicks up a lot of dust in the paddock so there must be a lot of air going through. My years of fanbelt problems simply went away.

I've had the same Charlie Clark fiberglass top shroud the whole time. It's a little long in the tooth especially with my rudimentary carving to fit the 6-tube Holley manifold. It's a little thick for spark plug boot retention.

Tom was going to make carbon fiber fans, I'm not sure how that's going.
I'm not sure what folks are using for housings these days.
I never liked the plastic Austin fan, I think it flattens out under the rigors of our application.

I always like the horizontal fan just fine, it was the cursed fan belt. I tried all sorts of things, thought maybe I had it for a long time but would always eventually lose it. With the rigors of road racing when you stop running air through the heads the aluminum temperature skyrockets immediately. Aluminum temper and valve seats are a whole other topic. What to do with valve seat trouble on a head with 3 special intake tubes and slant tube exhaust. I could weep over $2000 overheated heads because the fan belt came off, not to mention session over when you spent $1000s to get there.

I'd like to sell the racecar for $10,000.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Date: October 16, 2020 08:20AM

Porsches turn the wrong way, so I used a cut-down Austin American fan to make mine work. Never had a problem.

Attachments:
Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: nirvairna ()
Date: October 16, 2020 08:35AM

Do any of those shrouds have directional vanes on the inside of them? I've always wondered what the air distribution is like to the cylinders.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: nirvairna ()
Date: October 16, 2020 08:37AM

JimBrandberg - your fan setup modified by Tom Knoblauch sounds interesting, can you post a few pictures?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: JerryM ()
Date: October 16, 2020 08:45AM

Or eliminate the fan as Tatra did

Attachments:

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: October 16, 2020 07:18PM

JerryM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or eliminate the fan as Tatra did


grinning smiley Yeah, you just go ahead and do that! Just let us know how well that goes over with the local Constabulary. hot smiley hot smiley hot smiley

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: guthrie1068 ()
Date: October 17, 2020 06:38PM

American Mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Nash Fan flows more air and higher pressure.
> It is SUPERIOR.
> Not only to the stock Corvair fan, but also to the Porsche fan.
> Yes the Corvair arrangement has bends, but it has worked for OVER fifty years.
> If it ain't broke, why "Fix It" ? ? ? confused smiley
> If you are really going to push your engine, wouldn't you rather have the best cooling available?
> Hey, if you are just looking for an excuse to install something that you think Looks Cool, just go ahead and do it, you don't need an affirmation to do that.
> But if you really are looking for the best cooling option (for street, OR track), than drop the coin and get the Nash Fan!

Hang on just a second. Was your fan broken, or were you just lookin for an excuse to install something cool? It did work just fine for 50 years, right? I gotta believe he asked the question because he thought the Porsche fan was a cheaper option and worked good. He came to the right place to ask the question, this forum has lots of super smart and experienced guys.

Chad Guthrie
Onondaga, MI
'63 convertible

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Date: October 17, 2020 08:42PM

Not exactly broken per se, but the Corvair "serpentine" belt wouldn't stay on above about 7000 RPM, so I made the single-plane cooling fan.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 17, 2020 09:55PM

Could have solved thet with Warren LeVeque's 1/2 speed setup....same problem didn't cool well at lower rpm.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 911 cooling fan conversion
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: October 17, 2020 11:49PM

guthrie1068 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> American Mel Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > The Nash Fan flows more air and higher pressure.
> > It is SUPERIOR.
> > Not only to the stock Corvair fan, but also to the Porsche fan.
> > Yes the Corvair arrangement has bends, but it has worked for OVER fifty years.
> > If it ain't broke, why "Fix It" ? ? ? confused smiley
> > If you are really going to push your engine, wouldn't you rather have the best cooling available?
> > Hey, if you are just looking for an excuse to install something that you think Looks Cool, just go ahead and do it, you don't need an affirmation to do that.
> > But if you really are looking for the best cooling option (for street, OR track), than drop the coin and get the Nash Fan!
>
> Hang on just a second. Was your fan broken, or were you just lookin for an excuse to install something cool? It did work just fine for 50 years, right? I gotta believe he asked the question because he thought the Porsche fan was a cheaper option and worked good. He came to the right place to ask the question, this forum has lots of super smart and experienced guys.


Exactly!
And we have been trying to give him the most accurate info available.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.