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Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: ckstern ()
Date: October 08, 2020 04:39PM

At the beginning of the summer I had the Corvair out and every time I applied the brakes the car would dive to the right-hand side. I had ordered new wheel cylinders brake springs, and hoses.

What I thought would be a nice Sat. spending time with my father in the garage who is 83, is turning out to be a weeks long process.

Upon removing the wheels, brake shoes, and springs. I found one hose frozen on the brake line, not only was it frozen it still had Zbert coating on it from the dealer. (Probably why it was never changed).

I got the hose off but the brake line didn't fair so well.

So my list has grown to dropping the fuel tank, replacing all the brake lines, rebuild the master cylinder, new E-brake cables, and new fuel line.
Painting the area above the fuel tank, and a respray in the trunk.

After thirty-two years of ownership, besides regular maintenance and a few parts here and there the only problems I ever had was a dropped valve seat and a broken clutch cable.

I will post photos when I get them together.....
Till next time... Vair on

Charles Stern
Lancaster, Pa
1966 Corvair Corsa
3rd week Sept.1965

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: October 08, 2020 07:52PM

It can be tough getting the steel line tube nut released from the hose without twisting. I've found that I prefer lots of time patiently getting it apart with oil and heat to time spent replacing steel lines. It's good that you're taking care of the brakes, very important.
Replacing the cables isn't always a lot of fun either. Getting the ends out of the backing plates and routing through the pulleys with their guards are some highlights.
Working with your father is a heartwarming scenario.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: October 09, 2020 05:28AM

easy wat to get the parking brake cables out of the backing plate, is to use a small worm gear clamp to depress the fingers of the cable, and then it will slip out with little effort, unless it is rusted in place.

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 09, 2020 06:31AM

Having to change the line above the tank may be a blessing in disguise. I was running an errand in the mid 80s with my two young kids in the car when that line totally blew at at an intersection. Fortunatly nothing was coming. Drove it home cautiously with the e brake. Parked it for 8 or 9 years. When it went back on the road, everything brake related was brand new, except the MC which I rebuilt.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: October 09, 2020 06:50AM

The dreaded mission creep of "might as well while I'm here". grinning smiley

66RTVair
Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza DP Racecar
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: October 09, 2020 07:06AM

Take the clamp off the park brake cable that holds it to the rear torque arm. Makes it much easier to pull cable out of the plate.

Make your own brake li as with CUNIFER tubing.

Watch those cylinders. If they have storage time on them, take them apart and check for rust inside. Lubricate seals with brake fluid when installing. I am now inspecting any cylinder no matter where I get them from.

Good time to add dual master cylinder for safety.

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: October 11, 2020 11:56AM

Considering your in PA. I would pull the gas tank and replace that line (and the one to the other side).

It's been over five decades and good brakes are a cheap form of accident avoidance insurance.

Keep in mind a dual master cylinder is good to have, but when one circuit fails the braking action is reduced significantly as I learned decades ago in poorly maintained company cars.

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: October 12, 2020 07:51AM

I was thinking of getting my 61 back on the road but decided to scrap it instead. I was just in the neighborhood of the rear line removing the clutch/brake pulleys when the line started to drip. I swear I barely touched it.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: ckstern ()
Date: December 01, 2020 03:17PM

Update on the snowballing projects around the Corvair.

Replaced the rear stabilizers, E brake cable, replaced the rear motor mount and the harmonic balancer, my skid plate always had a large air chiseled area that I thought was an oil collection area. Called Jeff at the Ranch to get a new one and he said it sounds like a I have a high flow oil sump turns out I do, that mystery is solved.

Removed the fuel tank and sender unit, tank is spotless, original primer above the tank. The only surface rust was around the steering knuckle area. Removed the brake lines cleaned primered and painted above the tank area and replaced with SS pre-bent lines.

Rebuilt master cylinder. Went to paint the trunk, and found out the OEM exact GM spatter paint I had went bad. So I painted with what was a available and it was not close at all. Pictures will follow.

The only three issues that I had encountered was with the Paint, the pre-bent SS brake lines where pretty close some areas to long and some to short, and they leaked at all the brake hose connections. Tried tightening the connections but no luck, I cleaned, checked, nothing. I used the flare fitting copper gaskets by Parker Hannfin and everything sealed up nice.

It runs and stops just need to dial in the brakes, and find the broken spot in the wire from the fuel gauge to the gas sender unit.

Charles Stern
Lancaster, Pa
1966 Corvair Corsa
3rd week Sept.1965

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: December 01, 2020 06:17PM

Can't beat those copper gaskets when you need them.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: December 02, 2020 10:02AM

The Parker Hannfin copper gaskets are great!!! A buddy said they are common on old English cars and suggested them for my leaks.

My "new" prebent 140HP lines leaked at a number of flared junctions. The cooper gaskets worked well to fix that issue.

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: 1STLM ()
Date: December 02, 2020 11:40AM

Watch those cylinders. If they have storage time on them, take them apart and check for rust inside. Lubricate seals with brake fluid when installing. I am now inspecting any cylinder no matter where I get them from.

Interesting comment Al. I put all new brake components, including dual master cylinder, in my 66 and it takes excessive pedal pressure to even stop marginally. Clarks told me if I could skid the wheels on gravel, at low speed, then I was good to go. I can but it still takes what I believe to be excessive pedal pressure. I have wondered if the wheel cylinder seals are too soft and not sliding freely in the wheel cylinders but maybe the cylinder walls are just rusty.

Brice

66 Corsa Turbo Convertible

Bozeman, Montana

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 02, 2020 12:01PM

Normally you just need different shoes or a smaller bore MC!

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: December 02, 2020 03:14PM

My vote is bad shoes.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 138 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: 1STLM ()
Date: December 02, 2020 03:36PM

All of the new brake parts were from Clarks, including the new dual master cylinder. I have now had three different sets of shoes on the car, all with the same results. The drums have all been turned, some more than once because of bad results. I have been thinking to just run them and see if they wear in.

Brice

66 Corsa Turbo Convertible

Bozeman, Montana

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: December 02, 2020 06:19PM

What did the percentage of contact to the drum look like on these three sets of shoes?

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: 1STLM ()
Date: December 02, 2020 08:12PM

I don't recall the amount of contact on the previous two sets of shoes but the current front contact is decent, maybe 70%. The rears are less, maybe 50 - 60%. The rear drum diameter was close to original, until I had them turned a couple times trying to get them round again. They are now better but still not quite round. No one has been able to center a drum on a lathe around here. It was my thinking that the first two sets of shoes were too hard. The current set is from Clarks.

Brice

66 Corsa Turbo Convertible

Bozeman, Montana

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: December 02, 2020 08:46PM

We use those copper gaskets on stainless flare fittings at work.

On Corvairs I just make the lines out of Cunifer and have not needed a gasket yet.thumbs up

Quote
Brice
The rear drum diameter was close to original, until I had them turned a couple times trying to get them round again.

And that's why I have not turned a drum in maybe 25 years! Just seen too many ruined drums from improper turning. I sand them if they are rusty. Shoes do a pretty good job of smoothing out drums surfaces. Shoes are usually cheaper than turning. grinning smiley

I put on good used ones if I ever have an issue. Turning the drums just wastes the metal, never to be seen again. Just have to replace the drums if you turned them past their maximum size.

Why do you think they are out of round? Inside caliper? Brake pedal pulsating? If the pedal was not pulsating, I would never have turned them, just replaced if heavily grooved. Small groves A-OK, as that's more friction surface! grinning smiley Especially rears on earlies with the swivel bearings.winking smiley

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: 1STLM ()
Date: December 03, 2020 04:16AM

"Why do you think they are out of round?"

The shoe drag was inconsistent as I rotated the drums. This was also confirmed using a caliper. Should the shoe drag be consistent as the drum is rotated? I always ran a reversed lug nut up against them to make sure they were seated.

By the way, I ordered new drums from O'Reillys and they were out of round by .080"! They offered to turn them but I said no thanks. I have it in mind to buy NOS drums if I ever come across some.

Brice

66 Corsa Turbo Convertible

Bozeman, Montana

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Re: Expensive wheel cylinder
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: December 04, 2020 09:36PM

I've never had a drum brake car with consistent drag. Either my lathe isn't good enough or the hub isn't centered but it has never been an issue. If you think about how they work they are very forgiving since when applied the only real contact point is at the top pin. The drum has to be round but doesn't have to be all that well centered. I'm with Frank. I rarely turn drums and when I do it is the absolute minimum I can take off and I usually leave some untouched spots.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 138 Corvairs and counting...

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