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Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: September 23, 2020 07:41PM

I have heard a few on here make comments about which four-barrel to use.
While most just say to use the 390 Holley (which is what is on my car right now), I have heard others say that a small Quadrajet, or an AFB is actually better.
Something about Variable Venturi Secondaries? Is that right? confused smiley
Anyway, what is considered a "small" Quadrajet? Any part numbers?
What about an AFB?

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry
[corvaircenter.com]

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 23, 2020 07:43PM

Any carb spec'd for a 260 ci engine

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: September 23, 2020 07:48PM

I always have liked the Rochester 4bbl from 3.5L (215ci) BOP engines.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC/V8 Registry

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: September 23, 2020 07:54PM

The Quadrajet is an excellent carburetor but there is not really any such thing as a small one. They made 2 sizes 750 and 850cfm. The 850 is rare.
They do have small primaries and vacuum operated secondaries so a lot of people have good luck with them on Corvairs. Parts and tuning information is abundant also.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: September 23, 2020 08:58PM

Quote
Joel
Parts and tuning information is abundant also.

Cliff Ruggles book is GREAT!

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: September 24, 2020 05:19AM

You always know what your going to get from a Holley.

We used the 500 two barrel on buggys and my racecar.

They are perfect size...not too small not too big.

I do realize the topic is about four barrels...but.

Attachments:

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: TedBrown ()
Date: September 24, 2020 06:23AM

Coming from an EFI guy....airflow and fuel mixture is a pretty tough thing to get perfect even when the carb is designed for that engine. There is so many variables it amazes me how smart those engineers in the 50 and 60 were. I would recommend a WBO2 gauge when testing new components like that. $200 is a cheap price to pay rather than leaning out an engine and causing damage.

With the EFI, I have to only worry about bore size as you can control the injector flow on the fly and at different engine loads. Even with this, its not a find simular-sized EFI engine put it on and run situation. We spent years and thousands of $$$ getting the right parts to work right.

As Phil shows, your best option may be the 2 BBL he is using as he has done the hard working of finding a suitable one.

Ted

**NEW** Dual TBI KITS are now available through Clarks Corvair 1 Jan 2021
**2 & 4 TBI units are available through Corvair-EFI.com
Ted Brown
Anderson, SC
[www.Corvair-EFI.com]
Brown Injection Facebook
68 Monza Convert Auto - EFI
61 Loadside - PGlide - EFI
61 Rampside - 4 speed - EFI
61 Greenbrier 4 speed - EFI
61 Greenbrier 4 Speed - Bad Motor

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: September 24, 2020 06:33AM

I'd like to know more about the Rochester on a 215. It must be something different than a Quadrajet? How many are around?

The theory with the Quadrajet as I understand it is that the small primaries make for decent drivability and even though the secondaries are huge for our application they only open as much as the engine is calling for. I've got a Quadrajet and manifold but haven't been able to find the time to try it.

I petitioned SCCA for the 390 Holley because they're familiar with it. They're not a very sophisticated carburetor and I don't care much about drivability except to get out on the track. It seems to do pretty good despite my lack of concern. I like it way better than 4 Rochesters which caused me much angst. Racing is different though, mainly WOT and G-forces in fairly good weather usually.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: September 24, 2020 10:02AM

Quote
Jim
I'd like to know more about the Rochester on a 215. It must be something different than a Quadrajet?

Since the Buick and Oldsmobile 215 V-8 was before 1965, no it was not a Quadrajet.

Probably a 4Jet aka Squarejet.

Log onto the aaca.org Forum, General Discussion, and PM Carbking. He probably knows exactly what came on those engines. Do not ask him any questions on carburetors from the 80s....grinning smiley Way too new for his database.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: thewolfe ()
Date: September 24, 2020 10:44AM

Quadrajet is a great carb and will work fine but it's way overkill unless you are turbocharged. The secondaries will never open so what's the point? In my car with a 750cfm qjet the secondaries do not open until I hit about 10psi.

Nate Wolfe
Portland OR
65 Corsa 180




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2020 10:47AM by thewolfe.

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: wittsend ()
Date: September 24, 2020 10:47AM

From what I read the Buick 215 used a 4CG Rochester and a little looking over the site seems to indicate many of them asking what aftermarket carburetor it can be replaced with. So, it seem to be a somewhat rare and probmatic carburetor.

A lot of the smaller primary/large secondary 4 bbl. carburetors seem to have a small handful of people who know how to make them work right. Over in my Mopar world some still rave about the Thermoquad even with warped plastic bodies, glue in jets getting loose etc.. The good ones (early models) cost a lot as well as service to get them to work right. It seems a lot of cost and fuss to make something old work right.

The Edelbrock is available in 500 CFM. That said I think all the CFM difference is in the secondaries. They are a mechanical actuated secondary but have a load based "door" on top to control the air flow.

I think if one desires a single 4 bbl. they should stick with the Edelbrock or the Holley simply because they offer something still available and you are also more likely to find someone familiar with them. But like ANY carburetor they are only as good as the motor as a whole and the person making adjustments. If you are relatively young and you see your car with you far into the future then EFI might be well worth the investment in the long run.

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: September 24, 2020 12:40PM

From what I see, the Edelbrock is basically an AFB knock-off.

This day and age, young or old is relative to how you feel.
I plan on having a Corvair to the day I die.
I put more miles on my Corvair in a week, than a LOT of these guys put on in a year, so yes, you are correct that EFI would be worth the investment, but the Fake Flu Crisis has created an untenable financial situation at the moment.
When our Governor quits panicking and allows normal life to resume, things may turn around.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry
[corvaircenter.com]

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: wittsend ()
Date: September 24, 2020 12:46PM

"When our Governor quits panicking and allows normal life to resume, things may turn around."

Our Governor (Gabbing Nuisance) just banned new gasoline cars starting in 2035. You may be better off than you think. smiling smiley

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: September 24, 2020 01:13PM

Phil Dally and I are opening a Chevrolet, Buick, GMC dealership just East of the California/Nevada boarder.
More info to come and your 1969 Corvair trade-in vouchers will be honored. smoking smiley

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: September 24, 2020 01:19PM

wittsend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "When our Governor quits panicking and allows normal life to resume, things may turn around."
>
> Our Governor (Gabbing Nuisance) just banned new gasoline cars starting in 2035. You may be better off than you think. smiling smiley


I have heard about that.
He's a Crazy Nutbar for sure.
Used car values are going to SKYROCKET!
Until he bans title transfers on fossil-fueled vehicles. eye rolling smiley

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry
[corvaircenter.com]

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: September 24, 2020 01:27PM

Rather than being an AFB knock-off, I thought the Edelbrock was the direct descendent in this world of corporate merging and buyout and takeover and such. If that's not the case I would be interested in knowing the story.

I also have one of those and a manifold I haven't tried yet. I can't remember if it's a Carter or an Edelbrock.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: September 24, 2020 01:42PM

Jim, I believe you are correct.
Now that you mention it, I think I remember reading that some years ago.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry
[corvaircenter.com]

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: September 24, 2020 01:59PM

Whats up with no Pontiac or Oldsmobile Wagon? smiling bouncing smileysmiling bouncing smileysmiling bouncing smiley

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: wittsend ()
Date: September 24, 2020 02:03PM

JimBrandberg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rather than being an AFB knock-off, I thought the Edelbrock was the direct descendent in this world of corporate merging and buyout and takeover and such. If that's not the case I would be interested in knowing the story. ...
>

To help (or confuse), "Every Edelbrock carburetor is manufactured by Magneti Marelli Powertrain USA Inc. and has been specifically designed and tuned by Edelbrock engineers to provide the widest overall torque range. Magneti Marelli S.p.A. is an American-Italian developer and manufacturer of components for the automotive industry."

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Re: Educate me on Four Barrel Carbs.
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: September 24, 2020 02:15PM

Phil Dally Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whats up with no Pontiac or Oldsmobile Wagon? smiling bouncing smileysmiling bouncing smileysmiling bouncing smiley


I believe you meant to place a comma in there, no? winking smiley

Whats up with no Pontiac or Oldsmobile, Wagon? smiling bouncing smiley

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry
[corvaircenter.com]

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