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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: ecar66corsa ()
Date: September 24, 2020 11:22AM

Hey everyone I just wanted to thank you all for your help and input! All the advice and PM's have been invaluable to me.

Ill start a build thread to keep everyone updated, it would be helpful for me to document everything, get advice as to what im doing wrong or right and ask for help when the inevitable hiccups arise (pictures of and videos of the car will be posted as well). So if interested if following up keep a look out for that ill update everyone her once the build thread is posted in the forum.

Going forward Ill be trying to source carburetors and linkages to get the car on the road as fast as possible so i can enjoy it. Ill be replacing all gaskets, check timing and advance, and compression to rule out head work. The carbs will allow me to experience the car as it was meant to be initially and save up if I decide id like to go EFI or triport head with 40mm Webber in the future.

Thanks again everyone for your advice, wealth of knowledge, and to those of you who pm'ed me! Im excited to learn and be a part of the community.

Best,
Eddie

Eddie C.

66 Corvair Corsa Coupe

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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: September 24, 2020 11:30AM

Get it running and enjoy it as soon as possible...YES!!!

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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: ecar66corsa ()
Date: September 24, 2020 12:33PM

Yeah not trying to have too many plans and have it sit as an eternal project.

Eddie C.

66 Corvair Corsa Coupe

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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: September 24, 2020 01:33PM

Good thinking!
I have a friend with a '69 428 Super-Cobrajet Mach One.
He is creating a numbers correct, ALL MATCHING date codes (on EVERYTHING!), show quality car.
He has been working on this car for 25-30 years!
All this time, I have been out cruising around in and totally enjoying my Daily Driver quality Corvair.
The funniest part is, when he is done, if we were to take both of our cars to a cruise-in and park them side by side, I would get more attention than him.
To the average person, a Mustang is a Mustang, they are all the same stang.
But in the eyes of Joe Average, the Corvair is RARE!

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry

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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: jamesolefjensen ()
Date: September 24, 2020 02:10PM

One more data point on the Holley center mount approach: a new Holly 8007 390 CFM Carburetor costs $600 new!

My Corsa had a marginal 1x4 center mount setup when I first bought it and I decided (for better or worse) to perfect it. At the time, a new 390 Holley was about $300 so I bought one. I did some other tweaking but eventually, I got the thing running pretty good.

If I had to do it all over again today, I would put that $600 towards a stock 4x1 set up or maybe even the EFI.

Just sayin.

James
65 Corsa
SF Bay Area

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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: September 24, 2020 02:26PM

Eddie...did you buy your car from an ad on Santa Barbara Craigslist?

I sent that ad to playerpage because it looks so much like his BLUVAIR.

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Re: Fix Centermount with this carb
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 24, 2020 02:49PM

Brand new

[www.ebay.com]



MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: ecar66corsa ()
Date: September 24, 2020 03:58PM

Yes James a new Holly 390cf is $600+ and I have been unable to find a used one (since it would be the fastest) and that why I was considering EFI due to the high price of new carbs. But Rebuildable cores will be the cheapest and faster option for now and the $600 could be used to get a good setup running well.

Phil what a trip it does look vary similar. But no I did not pick it up from Santa Barbara, as far as Im aware (from talking to the previous owner) its been a northern California car its whole life, and was originally burgundy repainted blue in 2018 (along with trim) and front trunk linker grey.

Now thats another option Matt, and definitely the cheapest and I could save up for something. Would a two barrel work on the 140 engine? Block off plates might be needed? How would it affect the performance/drivability?

Eddie C.

66 Corvair Corsa Coupe

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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 24, 2020 04:34PM

Yup work fine! We've used them for decades MFG. doesn't matter.. This Chinese unit I've used 3 in 2 years.

1 on renter's son's '95 f250 460ci and two on 80's Bronco IIs with 2.8l one auto , one manual

4bbl to 2bbl adapters are cheap $19 free ship


[www.ebay.com]

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: September 24, 2020 08:22PM

ecar66corsa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes James a new Holly 390cf is $600+ and I have been unable to find a used one (since it would be the fastest) and that why I was considering EFI due to the high price of new carbs. But Rebuildable cores will be the cheapest and faster option for now and the $600 could be used to get a good setup running well.
>
> Phil what a trip it does look vary similar. But no I did not pick it up from Santa Barbara, as far as Im aware (from talking to the previous owner) its been a northern California car its whole life, and was originally burgundy repainted blue in 2018 (along with trim) and front trunk linker grey.
>
> Now thats another option Matt, and definitely the cheapest and I could save up for something. Would a two barrel work on the 140 engine? Block off plates might be needed? How would it affect the performance/drivability?


Some how I must have missed the post or thread that had said you were looking for a used Holley 390.
I believe I have some of those.
If you are interested. eye rolling smiley

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry

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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: September 24, 2020 08:40PM

I've driven a 140 with non operating secondarys, and man, what a way to take all the fun out of a cool engine... they are really doggy like that! might as well put a 110 in it instead, its probably faster! The really cool way to go EFI on a 140 is to bore the carb pads out to 1.5" and have the "carbs" bored out to match. Rig the linkage to open all four throttles syncronous... done like this those heads will flow 210 cfm and you will be able to use ALL of it, especially if the cam timing and fuel curve is a good match for all the extra airflow!!
The only 140's that can exceed this performance level have individual runners with 40mm throats. If this is a carb application, it wont run well until like 6000 rpm, but with EFI, its "see ya later baby", with no hitches anywhere!!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: 63ConDan ()
Date: September 25, 2020 10:45AM

ecar66corsa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum as I recently purchased a 66 corsa coupe. I was looking for advice regarding my carb situation.
>
> When I purchased the 66 corsa the previous owner had a 600 cfm center mount Edelbrock carburetor carburetor installed. The car had a high idle, lacked any sort of torque and frequently stalled out, pretty much nothing done could get the car to run anything short or mediocrely even after taking it to a carb mechanic to have it tuned. I understand that 600cfm is much to high for the engine which accounts for why it is running rich and has no torque, other than having the wrong carburetor there are a few vacuum leaks, and the throttle body linkage is poorly modified and will need to be fixed (rebent/extended).
>
> I would also need to buy a 390 cfm holly center mount, vacuum lines, linkages etc. to get the vair running decently. My question is should I bother with the center mount carb (purchasing a new one +parts)? Would it be better to source some original Rochester carbs and all linkages? Or since the cost of sourcing the carbs and all the parts is a majority of that compared to EFI, should I go straight into an EFI conversion (ted brow vs EZ EFI)? I understand that both the Ted brown and EZEFI use the stock carbs to mount to but if EFI is that much improved it may be worth the extra time and cash.
>
> Any advice and help would be much appreciated (best option of the three, if stock carbs best place to purchase), this is my first corvair and I'm excited to be able to drive it, everything else is sorted other than carbs.
>
> Thanks!
here is a possible solution:

Holley Sniper EFI 3200 self-tuning Master Kit.
[www.holley.com]
Mount on the current center mount, using an adaptor.

Dan Central MN

1968 Convert

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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: September 26, 2020 03:55AM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yup work fine! We've used them for decades MFG. doesn't matter.. This Chinese unit I've used 3 in 2 years.
>
> 1 on renter's son's '95 f250 460ci and two on 80's Bronco IIs with 2.8l one auto , one manual
>
> 4bbl to 2bbl adapters are cheap $19 free ship
>
>
> [www.ebay.com]

Hey Matt, is that a staged two barrel carb? Looks like it has a vacuum operated secondary.

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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 26, 2020 08:20AM

Nope !

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: MtnVairMike ()
Date: September 28, 2020 01:21PM

Yep just the front two barrels with the airhorn filled in where the back two would be on a 4 bbl.

My 78 Chevy truck has a very similar setup.

1966 Monza Convertible, 140HP-4 speed, Ermine White

Others in the menagerie...
72 Corvette Stingray, 58K miles, owned since 86
72 MGB, 112K miles, bought from original owner in 09
78 Chevy pickup, 124K miles, bought new in 78
93 Corvette, LT1/6spd, 210K miles, daily driver since 96

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Re: Fix Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Date: October 15, 2020 04:10PM

My 1965 Monza with a 140 had a 600 CFM center-mount Edelbrock on it when I bought it...it was bog-city. The first thing I did was to buy a 600-500 CFM adapter that restricted the primaries. It was much better off the line, but still bogged when the secondaries were opened. So, I bought the rest of the kit that restricted the secondaries, with total flow listed at 400 CFM. Much better, but still not great. I recently bit the bullet and bought a 390 CFM Holley, and now the only problem I'm having is getting the engine to idle under 1000 RPM. Here is what the 600-to-400 CFM adapters look like. Anybody want a 400 CFM Edelbrock?

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Re: Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 15, 2020 08:15PM

I'm interested. Price?

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 113 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: jamesolefjensen ()
Date: October 17, 2020 11:47PM

On the high idle issue with the Holley 390, I had a similar issue and solved it by using ported vacuum for the vacuum advance.

When it was on manifold vacuum, any attempt to slow the idle speed below 1000ish rpm would cause the manifold vacuum to drop, which on turn caused the vacuum advance to decrease, causing the RPMs to drop further sending the whole thing into a negative feedback loop and it would die.

When on ported vacuum, there is no vacuum advance at idle and therefore no negative feedback loop.

James
65 Corsa
SF Bay Area

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Re: Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 18, 2020 05:26AM

This isn't making a lot of sense to me. If it would go into the death spiral because of low vacuum, why would ZERO be any better, unless you changed the static.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Centermount carbs vs EFI vs stock carbs
Posted by: jamesolefjensen ()
Date: October 18, 2020 08:25AM

Sorry if my explanation isn't making sense. My engine doesn't make enough vacuum at idle to pull the vacuum advance arm all the way to the stop on the distributor. Around 1300 rpm, you can see the arm start to bounce around. At lower RPMs the, the death spiral kicks in, and the RPMs drop to below 500 or so and it eventually dies.

With ported vacuum controlling the vacuum advance, the vacuum advance doesn't move at idle (as expected) and I can adjust the idle speed without any affect on the timing (from the vacuum advance, that is). It much more stable. Static timing is 12 deg BTDC, I think

James
65 Corsa
SF Bay Area

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