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Squeak from engine
Posted by: autocomman ()
Date: September 07, 2020 10:33PM

So I just assembeled this engine. Made sure all the pushrods had the hole poointing up. But I feel like you really got have that dead on to work properly. So Im not sure where the squeak is coming from. It does increase with RPM, and its not anything to do with the belt, I took it off and still heard the noise.

Listen to the video and ignore the exhuast leak and the fan kissing the top cover. I listened with a pipe around the bottom where the cylinders meet the head thinking head gasket, but now im wondering if its a rocker ball. I did a valve adjustment and wasnt really paying attention to the noise. Im also not sure if it was making the noise when I first started it. I do know one of the rocker bals didnt look great, im guessing its possible that may be the issue....and I dont remember which one it was either.

Yeah this is in my resto thread, Im hopin to get more eyes on it with a new thread for this issue. Also I havent seen a vid with this noise either, so maybe in the future it will help someone

Squeak vid

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: RobertC ()
Date: September 07, 2020 11:49PM

Rocker ball; Rocker arm; head gasket.

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: September 08, 2020 04:54AM

Can you hear it on top? If so, pull belt and see if it goes away. I had on do a squeak on my Greenbrier. It was the alternator. Rebuilt and it is fine.

Al
Georgia

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: September 08, 2020 06:35AM

autocomman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I just assembeled this engine. Made sure all the pushrods had the hole poointing up. But I feel like you really got have that dead on to work properly. So Im not sure where the squeak is coming from. It does increase with RPM, and its not anything to do with the belt, I took it off and still heard the noise.

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: September 08, 2020 07:22AM

Valve train/rockers and balls would be my guess. Take the valve covers back off and put some assembly lube on everything that moves and inspect. If you have an issue with any of the parts, replace them (even with good used).
Your valve cover retaining brackets are on incorrectly but are not the source of the noise.

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: September 08, 2020 07:34AM

Rocker arm/pushrod would be my guess. Your words 'made sure hole was pointing up' is meaningless because the pushrods spin constantly.

The shop manual tech writers were used to writing about inline 6 and V8 thus their reference to holes being UP meaning at rocker arm end. Same applies of course to Corvair at the rocker arm end.

As mentioned the typical issue is lack of lube at either rocker ball to rocker arm or end of pushrod turning in the rocker arm.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC/V8 Registry

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: autocomman ()
Date: September 08, 2020 08:45AM

Ok, I wondered about the spinning pushrods. I was gonna say I've never seen a GM small block where the pushrods didn't spin, I had no idea how it was possible that tiny hole would stay aligned with the hole on the rocker.

More I listened to the noise more I'm thinking it's a rocker ball. It's got a 2 step noise almost, like you can hear the rocker going up and down. I dunno, maybe I'm trying to convince myself it's the easy fix. I'll pull the covers today and see if I can pinpoint which one. I'm thinking maybe I can squirt em with an oil can one at a time see if any of em get quiet.

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: CoCoCo ()
Date: September 08, 2020 01:28PM

autocomman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen to the video and ignore the exhaust leak and the fan kissing the top cover.
>

With all of your close-up listening, are you still sure it's NOT the exhaust leak?
Every time I've had one it sounded like something else was squeaking. Especially the one time I was diagnosing a real doosey of a squeak that turned out to be a compression leak from a slightly loose spark plug with tapered seat (not a corvair with gasket/seal type) and was driving everyone nuts.

I know the rockers are a good suspect right now, but wanted to throw that out there anyway. Heck, maybe even look for a loose spark plug!grinning smiley

Good luck.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2020 01:29PM by CoCoCo.

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: wittsend ()
Date: September 08, 2020 01:59PM

Any chance a bent push rod is scraping on the guide plate?

As to the 'point up of the push rod hole,' - as already mentioned the perspective of the manual writer might have been different. With the engine on a stand with the cylinders in the 6 and 12 O'Clock position (rotated as needed) the "pointed up" would be very logical during assembly although there are likely better ways to say it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2020 02:01PM by wittsend.

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: autocomman ()
Date: September 08, 2020 07:03PM

I pulled the top cover so the fan noise wasnt an issue, and I replaced the Y-pipe and went over the manifolds and all those parts very carefully. No more exhaust leaks. (sounds way better)

Still squeaks. Pulled the valve cover, its definalty on the driver side of the engine. Started it up, using a squirt oil can one full pump on each of the nuts and rockers to saturate it when its running, no change, I even squirted some on the valve stems, no change. Its gotta be a compression leak. I tried pulling spark plugs to see if i could eliminate it, not just the wire, actually removing the plug, but the air moving in and out of the spark plug hole will wistle. Went as far as to pulling all 3 plugs on that side and running it, and it will run surpisingly smooth, just lazy haha. I cannot pinpoint which cylinder, but it seems like its around #6. Listened with a hose still and could not find it. I also cant see any black soot from where it may be leaking.

So Im gonna try to do a leak down tomarrow. That will be a telltale. But before I do that I may just retorque the heads. The manual I used which is the old GM one online said 27-33 ft lbs. I went 30, and I did it in 2 steps. 15 or 20 then 30. But I found a bulletin that says 30, then 40 as the final torque, then retorque after a rest. Which I did do, but only to 30, other articles say 33-38....this is quite an increase from the 30 I landed at. What are the thoughts on a retorque and what the final torque should be? Everything torqed up fine too, no issues getting to the 30 lbs. 5 more lbs is more than a 15% increase. Thats not necessairly a small amount.

Is it possible a headgasket slipped slightly and didnt sit int its spot and thats causing the leak? I know its hard to say without hearing it ot seeing it stripped down, but has anyone had that happen? Its a copper headgasket BTW.

Video with the top tin off

Squeak video #2

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: wittsend ()
Date: September 08, 2020 07:32PM

could it be the oil baffle under the turkey roaster has broken and is hitting the crank weights? Is this an Automatic? Could the flex plate (or one of its bolts) be the problem? Just throwing out ideas.

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: September 08, 2020 07:59PM

Don't go past 30 on the heads or you'll be fixing pulled threads.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 113 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: September 08, 2020 08:52PM

Hey wittsend, please explain what you mean by "oil baffle under the turkey roaster has broken and is hitting the
crank weights". I am not familiar with what you mean. Also his vehicle is a manual transmission.

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: autocomman ()
Date: September 08, 2020 10:21PM

Its a manual, and I just assembeled this engine. Crank is not hitting the baffle. The noise is definatly on the LH side of the engine. Its a 3 speed manual.

Is the general consensus 30 ftlbs max on the head bolts?

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: RobertC ()
Date: September 08, 2020 11:50PM

autocomman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Is the general consensus 30 ftlbs max on the head bolts?

YES.

Once the block is "old" enough - miles / heat cycles; you can pull a head stud torquing the head to 30 lbs.

RE Squeak: Putting an "iffy condition" rocker ball in an engine is not the best idea.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2020 11:53PM by RobertC.

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: autocomman ()
Date: September 09, 2020 12:42AM

It had a minor score on it and I've seen much worse in engines that run fine. I have a few extra good used ones now so I'll swap it out anyway.

And I'll stick to 30lbs on the head bolts. The other side is fine, so this side should be too. I'm hoping the head gasket just slipped and pinched or something when the head went on. Was was pretty careful to be sure everything stayed in place but we all know how that works. Gonna see if I can do a leak down to determine the cylinder then pull the head.

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: RobertC ()
Date: September 09, 2020 01:23AM

autocomman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It had a minor score on it and I've seen much worse in engines that run fine. I have a few extra good used ones now so I'll swap it out anyway.
>
> And I'll stick to 30lbs on the head bolts. The other side is fine, so this side should be too. I'm hoping the head gasket just slipped and pinched or something when the head went on. Was was pretty careful to be sure everything stayed in place but we all know how that works. Gonna see if I can do a leak down to determine the cylinder then pull the head.

My Corvair mechanic in the 70's / 80's was very picky about rocker balls / rocker arms. He showed me rocker arms where the surface the ball rubbed on was worn thin - even a few rocker arms with cracks in this surface.

Head gasket: Not familiar with the current head gaskets; the original GM gaskets had enough interference that when placed in the head against the gasket surface they would not move.

I would find it odd that there was a head gasket leak on a new engine - unless a stud pulled. Even though I stated that in my first post.

This is just based on one experience that I had: Bought a used 65 Corvair with "low" miles(52,000); a PO stated that they did a valve job because they did the push rod seals (Warning!). 6,000 miles later I get exhaust fumes inside the car on WOT acceleration. Do not recall a squeak, but I knew the head gasket was toast - head not torqued correctly.

Good luck.

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: September 09, 2020 06:22AM

One problem with head gaskets is if the cylinder has sunk up into the head, sometimes more on one side than the other so the head tips.
I'm not saying it's your problem, just something to watch for when it's apart.
Sometimes a head gasket will chirp when cold but get better as the engine warms and expands.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: wittsend ()
Date: September 09, 2020 10:29AM

Timothy Shortle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey wittsend, please explain what you mean by "oil baffle under the turkey roaster has broken and is hitting the
> crank weights". I am not familiar with what you mean. Also his vehicle is a manual transmission.

Do I misunderstand that the cover (image 1) the fan bearing attaches to has the slang term "Turkey Roaster?" And beneath that is a sheet metal oil separator (image 2) baffle that is prone to cracking (mine has a crack - to be welded). And while I have not experienced it myself I have read here at the CC Forum that others have experienced a broken baffle falling into the rotating crankshaft.

Attachments:

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Re: Squeak from engine
Posted by: RobertC ()
Date: September 09, 2020 11:27AM

wittsend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Timothy Shortle Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Hey wittsend, please explain what you mean by "oil baffle under the turkey roaster has broken and is hitting the
> > crank weights". I am not familiar with what you mean. Also his vehicle is a manual transmission.
>
> Do I misunderstand that the cover (image 1) the fan bearing attaches to has the slang term "Turkey Roaster?" And beneath that is a sheet metal oil separator (image 2) baffle that is prone to cracking (mine has a crack - to be welded).

Confusing terminology:

Your "turkey roaster" is referred to as "top cover" (if my memory is not failing which it might be).

Here, "turkey roaster" refers to the black sheet metal piece that covers the whole top of the engine.

Hence, confusion.

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