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Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: Willt65 ()
Date: June 23, 2020 06:35PM

So after putting 1200 miles on my fresh engine last summer, I took it back out so I can make some wanted modifications, because I just wasn't completely happy with the performance. So I've started disassembling one of the heads and already 2 of the 6 valve springs had the inner spring broke. So knowing I will be replacing my springs, I'm thinking that the Beehive spring design would be a better solution for replacements. My setup is a isky 280 cam with the recommended springs that I bought along with it. I've heard talk that theres a beehive design that will work, is there anyone out there currently running them that would share what they are using? I assume I would also need matching retainers, which should be lighter I would think. Thanks in advance for your help!!!!


Will Teeter
Flintstone, MD
65 Corsa project
66 Monza parts car
49 Chevy 5 window project
08 Chevy 2500
13 Honda Odyssey
07 Honda 919
04 Honda Rancher
05 Honda Forman
96 Honda XR400R

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: June 23, 2020 06:51PM

TKnobby will most likely know, PM him.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: Willt65 ()
Date: June 23, 2020 06:59PM

Thanks Matt!!!


Will Teeter
Flintstone, MD
65 Corsa project
66 Monza parts car
49 Chevy 5 window project
08 Chevy 2500
13 Honda Odyssey
07 Honda 919
04 Honda Rancher
05 Honda Forman
96 Honda XR400R

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: June 23, 2020 07:17PM

Beehive are not that good and can break, Did you have the Isky Springs or the Clarks replacement springs? Was the inner spring a round or flat spring? I have never had a problem with Isky springs, they are a lot better IMO.







1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)

-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: chris ()
Date: June 23, 2020 07:31PM

DaveCS1 here has been using them. I would like to use them since they are lighter springs and retainers. In addition, they’re supposed to be easier in the valves with better harmonics. Chevy used them on the LS style engines which have high lift. Those are basically a drop in replacement since the dimensions are very close the same as ours.

'65 Monza 4 door
4 speed
110hp
Gardner, KS

Heart of America Corvair Owners Association

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: The Stig ()
Date: June 23, 2020 07:37PM

I have not run them yet, but my new engine has them. I bought my set from Ray Sedman very reasonably priced. They do require a slight opening of the valve pocket.

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: June 23, 2020 07:54PM

The Corvair racers quit using them as they break, think Rick Norris broke 2 with very little time on them, the Isky Springs have been proven and a lot of the racers still use them as well as Myself, I either run stock GM or Isky, if you run the flat inner spring GM style with a 280 cam they will break after a while.







1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)

-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: texas yenko dude ()
Date: June 23, 2020 08:01PM

Norris had issues over and over and gave up on them. Get a set of ISKY’s, some ti retainers and offset keepers and be done with it. That is what we run on all of our race motors. A proven setup.

Texas YENKO Dude
YS-070
YS-199
YS-320
Southeast of Disorder


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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: June 23, 2020 08:35PM

What beehive springs break? It's a design not a brand. The design is well proven.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: Willt65 ()
Date: June 24, 2020 03:19AM

I thought I had isky springs however it has the flat inner spring, which is what has broke. They were purchased new probably 15 years ago, only just now used.


Will Teeter
Flintstone, MD
65 Corsa project
66 Monza parts car
49 Chevy 5 window project
08 Chevy 2500
13 Honda Odyssey
07 Honda 919
04 Honda Rancher
05 Honda Forman
96 Honda XR400R

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: June 24, 2020 04:29AM

Stick with the dual valve spring, both round wire. If you want lighter retainers I have Titanium.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: June 24, 2020 06:55AM

I looked into beehive springs 15 years ago but didn't go with them because others were having problems.
If Ray Sedman is using them perhaps he has figured out something specific that works.
I don't remember hypothesis to why they were breaking in Corvair engines, it's not like we're much different than V-8 engines in this regard. Rick Norris was mentioned as one guy who abandoned them. He's a pretty careful guy. He's always easy to talk to but I don't think he comes here.
I miss Fastvairs forum for topics like this.
Isky 280 cam isn't much. When using 320HL and more I had to be careful with installed height and regards to coil bind.
I'd be inclined to look to round inner spring like Ken said. If you go beehive I'd sure be interested in follow-up now and in the future.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: nirvairna ()
Date: June 24, 2020 07:56AM

Broken beehive springs....kinda like dropped valve seats. Millions and millions of miles of successful running and a few failures.

Some good info on broken beehives HERE

PAC springs have an excellent reputation, they are close to the same price as the COMP springs according to Summit's website

Someone posted here about heating springs to 400*F before using - was that Ken Hand?

HTH

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: June 24, 2020 08:12AM

One problem with the beehive spring is they are a single spring, when they break (and they do) you have no back up spring to close the valve, so then your valve hangs open and hits the piston and bends and creates other problems, A 280 cam will compress the springs with the flat inner coil to their max and coil bind, although they will run good for a while like this, eventually the inner or outer spring will break, every time. The Isky springs were designed specifically for the Corvair with high lift cams, they have been proven on the track and street for more than 40 years, Its a No Brainer for me to use what is proven.







1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)

-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: June 24, 2020 08:20AM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What beehive springs break? It's a design not a brand. The design is well proven.
-------------------------------------------------------
GM and Crane beehive springs break, seen it many times. and when they do you get a bent valve and damaged Piston.







1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)

-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: June 24, 2020 10:26AM

Never put a single spring on a performance motor, Theres a reason the chevy dealer keeps them in stock !

1965 Crown V8 Racer
1964 Bill Thomas Monza Replica Racer
1964 Spyder Street Car
1979 Mazda RX7

Mike Levine

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: June 24, 2020 05:43PM

nirvairna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone posted here about heating springs to 400*F before using - was that Ken Hand?
>
> HTH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I don't recall posting something like that but maybe I did. You need to heat to 400 degrees for 4-6 hours then let cool. What that does is remove the Hydrogen that causes Hydrogen embrittlement. I think Dale Dewald piped in on that maybe.

Now that I think about it I probably did post that. My experience came from an FAA airworthiness directive that said we had to remove the lower wing bolts on King Air planes and bake them in an oven for 8? hrs. because of hydrogen embrittlement.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2020 05:49PM by vairmech.

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: Chasgee ()
Date: June 24, 2020 06:16PM

You only need to bake parts to relieve hydrogen embrittlement if they are plated. If not plated, there is nothing to trap the hydrogen.

Are the springs plated?

Chuck Gee
Carlsbad, CA

1963 Monza 102 - in the family from new
1966 Corsa 140 Coupe - new project

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: June 24, 2020 06:31PM

Or if you use electrolysis to remove rust as I was told, the electric current used to remove the rust puts hydrogen into the metal like plating does, I removed all the rust from a Corvair crank and then baked it in the oven before using it, It has not broke, I think time gets rid of the hydrogen as well but baking speeds it up.







1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)

-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: Broken Valve Springs... does anyone have p/n for Beehive replacements?
Posted by: The Stig ()
Date: June 24, 2020 07:31PM

Huh. I’ll have to see how mine fare. However mine are in a 95 PG that will maybe see 1k a year.

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