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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: mattlockwood ()
Date: June 27, 2020 05:05AM

Great discussion.

I have the low-psi-light-while-in-gear-when-my-engine-is-warm issue.
Would an external oil cooler and/or thicker viscosity oil fix this? I was leaning towards a high output oil pump

------------------------------------------
1970 VW Bus- converting to a 110hp w/a PG

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: June 27, 2020 05:36AM

Low oil pressure could be worn out crankshaft bearings.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: mattlockwood ()
Date: June 27, 2020 06:34AM

JimBrandberg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Low oil pressure could be worn out crankshaft bearings.


In this case, it’s a brand new rebuild

------------------------------------------
1970 VW Bus- converting to a 110hp w/a PG

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: June 27, 2020 06:51AM

1. Were the rod and main bearing clearances checked and set to spec.?
2. Were the oil pump gears inspected and cover clearance set?
3. Was the oil pressure sender replaced?
4. Was the oil pressure relief spring changed?
5. Has the low pressure at hot idle in gear been confirmed with a trusted gauge?

Let's start here.

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: mattlockwood ()
Date: June 27, 2020 07:00AM

Yes to all.

I need to clarify.

The oil light flickers on, when the engine has been warmed up, at a stoplight (for instance), with the PG in gear. If I put it in N the light goes out.

------------------------------------------
1970 VW Bus- converting to a 110hp w/a PG



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2020 07:01AM by mattlockwood.

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: June 27, 2020 07:16AM

So what was the oil pressure relief spring replaced with?
What was the gauge reading at hot idle in gear?

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: June 27, 2020 11:12AM

There's no need to micro analyze this problem... the idle pressure is low enough light to come on when hot. It is not at all unusual for a Corvair engine to do this and the most common source of this is nothing more than a worn beyond spec cam journal. When this condition exists, it is always the big one next to the cam gear that will be out of spec, and this is because of the extra side load that bearing has on it. The bugger is, a out of spec cam journal starves the crank and rod bearings also, so even if the crank and rod bearing clearances are dead on, the low pressure condition can exist. The easy way to take care of this really is to put a HV pump on, and use a good mechanical oil pressure gauge to decide which oil viscosity to use after it is installed. I have been using a HV pump for years now and properly modified the bypass to handle the extra volume and run the appropriate oil viscosity, my cold oil pressure is 60psi, my hot idle pressure at 1000 rpm is 30. No scarey story's to report after probably 50000 miles. I will also add that right after putting the new pump on, the lifter ticks I was hearing previously went away!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2020 11:18AM by 63turbo.

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: June 27, 2020 11:19AM

What oil did you end up using?

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: June 27, 2020 11:34AM

0w-40 Mobil 1, european formula FS... This oil has a hot viscosity that is BARELY in for a 40 weight, I think it is 12.8 centistokes(?) and a xw-30 on this same scale could be no more than 12.5. Before I found the specs on this oil, I used to create a "witches brew" between a xw-40 and a xw-30 to keep the viscosity good for year round driving, thinner in the winter, somewhat thicker in the summer and I just dont need to do that anymore with the new FS version. It has turned out to be a heck of a oil for my purposes!!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: June 27, 2020 06:11PM

IIRC I put Mobil1 15w40 in mine along with the HV pump. No improvement in hot idle pressure. I'm not sure what that means but I'm also not sure what oil was originally in it. It could have been 20w50.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: June 28, 2020 04:54AM

If you use thinner than non standard oils recommended for the Corvair you could have pressure issues with the stock pump. It was even mentioned that putting the HV pump in didn't fix the problem. Why?

I can think of several reasons. Did you check the OD clearance of the gears to the housing? What about the end clearance? The generic descriptions I have seen for setting that leave a lot to be desired. The end clearance should be no more than .005 and even in my book that is a little on the loose side.

Doing nothing to the stock spring will give you stock pressures of about 35 psi at speed. if the internal clearances of the pump are excessive it cannot pump enough volume to keep the light off at idle even with a 30W or a 10W-30 oil. I personally have a very big dislike of Mobile 1, I have seen people run it but yet put additives in to help it, why?. At this point thicker oil may help the situation but what are you doing to the long term life of your engine?

It all comes down to IF the oil light comes on at idle you have to find out why. Adding a cover up with a HV oil pump doesn't fix the problem and what I read earlier didn't fix the idle oil light coming on.
I can see three things. The rear housing is worn beyond limits,
the oil pump is not set up correctly, or there is an internal issue with the engine. Just by chance did you change the oil pressure switch?

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: June 28, 2020 05:56AM

vairmech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can see three things. The rear housing is worn beyond limits,
> the oil pump is not set up correctly, or there is an internal issue with the engine. Just by chance did you change the oil pressure switch?

He answered these questions with "Yes to all".

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: June 28, 2020 07:59AM

So what is your issue with Mobil1? I don't know why anyone would put additives in it.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: June 28, 2020 05:12PM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So what is your issue with Mobil1? I don't know why anyone would put additives in it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

They claim to 100% synthetic but they add 10% dino oil. My biggest thing with Mobil is they got the SAE rules changed to suit them.

I have a friend that races a Yenko and he uses Mobil 1, he also adds Lucas oil stabilizer so the lifters stay quiet. I did ask him about that and my question was if you have to put an additive in Mobil 1 to make it work then why use it? He didn't have an answer because he was a Mobil 1 user.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: June 28, 2020 05:31PM

This is someone playing chemist... you do NOT need to put ANYTHING in oil to keep the lifters quiet!! As thick as Lucas oil stabilizer is, this is probably the CAUSE of it, from lack of oil flow and the foaming it causes. Those kind of chemist stories are not unigue to Mobil1 either... the ZDDP SCARE tactics have been out there so long that some think no matter what oil they put in their Corvair it needs to be "supplemented" with some highly touted SNAKE OIL. All those additives are good for is messing with the carefully formulated additive package that is in ALL quality oils. Besides that, why does it matter if it has some dino oil in it? does this mean the lifters just wont work at all if it is 100% dino oil? if so how did Corvair lifters work when that's all they had. I dont really care what any ones oil "claims" to be made from as long as it protects they engine well.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: June 28, 2020 05:51PM

[www.quora.com]
This article claims Castrol is the one that got the rules changed and also confirms Mobil1 0w30 is only 90% synthetic.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: June 28, 2020 05:58PM

Here's some more on that, from the Bob is the Oil guy page...


Castrol is the reason why an oil can call themselves 100% synthetic and not be so. Mobil 1 is a synthetic oil in the true "pre-Castrol litigation suit old school definition of synthetic" sense. Mobil 1 uses Group 4 and Group 5 basestocks. That, if you ask almost anyone, is a synthetic oil. Others like Castrol and Valvoline etc use Group 3+ basestocks which are not considered synthetic by the majority here.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2020 06:00PM by 63turbo.

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: June 29, 2020 07:03AM

This is a good discussion. Lots to think about. I heard that Pennzoil now has a 100% synthetic made from natural gas. What about this stuff?

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: June 29, 2020 12:56PM

This is what I found on my original turbo engine with a high volume pump. The drive tang on the distributor was worn out and the gear was loose with the roll pin holes elongated. No thanks. Standard pump works fine for me.

Lee J

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