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high flow oil pumps
Posted by: jjeffb ()
Date: June 21, 2020 02:04PM

Do high flow oil pumps cause lifter problems and oil leaks

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: June 21, 2020 03:02PM

Nope!

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: June 21, 2020 03:11PM

They do cause distributor gear wear and higher oil temps if you don't need them. What is your reason for wanting to install?

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: June 22, 2020 06:22AM

They plain are NOT needed!

I run an external oil cooler on the race car with a standard pump and after a race hot I still have a 15 psi idle pressure. Hot = 270 degrees! I run synthetic so the oil lives, dino oil should only be up to 230 degrees MAX.

If you are having oil pressure issues I bet if you just put a new set of gears in and space them properly your issues will go away, even though you didn't say.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: June 22, 2020 08:45AM

I run the high volume pump in 362 with the Z28 spring. 65lb hot and 30 lbs at idle. I do seem to run high oil temps (280+)
I change the oil every race weekend,4 race weekends now without any engine issues and I pull the dist out to prime after the oil change and have seen no noticeable wear. 15w50 Mobil one

1965 Crown V8 Racer
1964 Bill Thomas Monza Replica Racer
1964 Spyder Street Car
1979 Mazda RX7

Mike Levine

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: June 22, 2020 09:38AM

The Corvair engine standard oil pump is more than adequate for a "street" engine in good condition.

At one time race engines were built with large bearing clearances to reduce friction power losses. So a higher volume oil pump was required.

I've seen two engines (not Corvair) ruined by high volume oil pumps. One broke the pump drive shaft, the other produced too much oil pressure and "floated" the bearings and ruined them.

I think it was Hod Rod magazine that compared a standard vs. a high volume oil pump on a V8 with standard bearing clearances. What they found was the high volume oil pump used more energy that ended up RAISING the oil temperature.

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: alphasud ()
Date: June 22, 2020 10:58AM

I believe there was a episode on Engine Masters where they ran back to back dyno tests on oil pans. It’s amazing how much HP you loose to frictional losses dealing with excessive oil pressures or windage issues. General rule was 15psi per 1000 rpms. Some modern vehicles need a lot more pressure to drive all the variable valve timing and cylinder deactivation methods.

David North Idaho
1965 Corsa Turbo converted to 140
1971 Super Beetle with 2.5L Subaru engine
1965 Corsa mid engine project
1973 Mercedes 280 project

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: June 22, 2020 02:11PM

Id like to see some pics of damaged corvair motors from an HV oil pump if any one has any ?

1965 Crown V8 Racer
1964 Bill Thomas Monza Replica Racer
1964 Spyder Street Car
1979 Mazda RX7

Mike Levine

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: Seth Emerson ()
Date: June 22, 2020 02:50PM

Also worth noting is that the oil bypass, if correctly operating, will discharge the extra oil right back into the pan. That means some extra flow, but the "zero" PSI on the outlet size of the bypass - dumping back into the pan won't cause too much wear. It isn't like the pump is pushing against any more pressure.

Seth Emerson

Check my new Performance Corvair Web site [www.perfvair.com]

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: June 22, 2020 07:48PM

Seth Emerson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also worth noting is that the oil bypass, if correctly operating, will discharge the extra oil right back into the pan. That means some extra flow, but the "zero" PSI on the outlet size of the bypass - dumping back into the pan won't cause too much wear. It isn't like the pump is pushing against any more pressure.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Seth, go look at a rear housing. The bypassed oil goes right back into the pump inlet. Look at the picture, the arrow points to the bypass and the chamber is the oil pump inlet.

Picture taken from the internet and is an early 61 housing.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2020 07:49PM by vairmech.

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: June 23, 2020 05:44AM

It does dump into the pick up cavity I don't see why that would increase pressure ??

1965 Crown V8 Racer
1964 Bill Thomas Monza Replica Racer
1964 Spyder Street Car
1979 Mazda RX7

Mike Levine

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: June 23, 2020 06:14AM

v8vair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It does dump into the pick up cavity I don't see why that would increase pressure ??

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It doesn't increase pressure but it does increase temperature. Anytime you move or pressurize anything it heats up, the same happens with oil. There is NO cooling involved as the excess oil that has just been heated up by pumping goes right back into the furnace, oil pump, to get heated again and again.

You do not go through the oil cooler or the engine and all you do is proceed directly to GO! If you were playing Monopoly and all you did was go around the board and collect $200 not stopping anywhere you would be rich. Now think of the money as heat, you have nowhere to spend it so you collect it and collect it getting hotter all the time.

The stock Corvair oil pump will pump 3-5 GPM @ 2500 rpm. That is the equivalent of 3-5 oil changes every minute, let that sink in. Now add in the HV oil pump. It adds about 1/3 more volume so now you are pumping 4-7 GPM, Gallons Per Minute. Unless you build with very loose tolerances that extra oil has nowhere to go. It also seems everyone is so concerned about keeping close tolerances and then also wants a HV oil pump, where does all that extra oil go? It has also been mentioned about the bronze drive gear wearing, yes it does, it is extra work pumping all that extra oil.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: June 23, 2020 07:47AM

Its hard to talk about what the HV pump does or does not do without taking viscosity into account... at any given pressure, less oil will flow to the engine when the viscosity is higher, more oil will flow if the viscosity is lower. The right way to use a HV pump is to LOWER the viscosity of the oil enough for the pressure to not change much. When used in this way, the temperature of the oil tends to go down, and the hp usage of the pump also falls. This is exactly how HV pumps are used on V8's, which also tended to have as much overkill in the stock oiling system as Corvairs do, and is also found lacking for racing and high performance applications.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: Wallygator ()
Date: June 23, 2020 08:50AM

I don't have experience with the corvair engine but in v8 applications with high volume pumps you have to make sure you get the oil back to the pan or you end up sucking air witch leads to catastrophic failure.

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: Spectre ()
Date: June 23, 2020 09:10AM

I had an engine in the late 1980's that I put a HV pump on. The distributor shaft broke at the roll pin but there was enough pressure between that pin and the upper shaft that the distributor kept the engine running. Fortunately this happened at idle at a stop light. The oil light came on, quickly followed by all of the lifters getting noisy due to no oil pressure. I was able to pull over, tow the car home, and remove the HV pump, and replace the distributor.

David Clamp


1965 Corsa convertible - 140 4spd/3.55/AM-FM

2013 Mustang GT convertible - 5.0, 6spd auto, Procharger i-1

2003 Miata SE - 6spd manual (wife's toy)

"Victory is mine!" - SG

Norman, OK

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: June 23, 2020 09:51AM

Well my motor is built loose on purpose, It is a race motor that I shift at 7200. So far so good so im not changing back anytime soon.

1965 Crown V8 Racer
1964 Bill Thomas Monza Replica Racer
1964 Spyder Street Car
1979 Mazda RX7

Mike Levine

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: June 24, 2020 07:23AM

I use a high volume with front mounted oil cooler but regular on everything else but that's just me. I have no scientific reasoning or data to back up my decision.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: DOUG WARD ()
Date: June 26, 2020 02:07PM

WOW ! This is a very enlightening discussion. Really well thought out responses. I won't be using a HD pump in the street engine that I'm building. Thanks, you guys for this forum. Doug Ward

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: The Stig ()
Date: June 26, 2020 02:12PM

Funny - I have never run one. My new to me '66 has one I just discovered. I will be removing it. I will note however it has the least amount of lifter noise and tendency to clack on startup of just about any corvair engine I have ever been around.

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Re: high flow oil pumps
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: June 26, 2020 02:31PM

I installed one in one of my cars because of low oil pressure. It didn't help for some reason. Maybe the bypass has an issue.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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