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Disc brake that actually stops smiling smiley
Posted by: lior_baruch ()
Date: May 17, 2020 05:22AM

Hi all,

A friend of mine that recently bought a 1965 Corvair 180hp convertible (Not my fault. Ok maybe yes) is looking for better braking than the Clarks Corvair brake disc conversion kit that's currently installed there.

Any ideas/suggestions?

Thanks!

Lior



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2020 05:25AM by lior_baruch.

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Re: Disc brake that actually stops smiling smiley
Posted by: Caraholic4life ()
Date: May 17, 2020 06:05AM

This thread from three month's ago may be worth looking at.

[corvaircenter.com]

1962 95 F.C. Van
1965 Monza Coupe
Westminster, Maryland

MID ENG enthusiast &
prior Kelmark owner.

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Re: Disc brake that actually stops smiling smiley
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: May 17, 2020 09:55AM

EBC Pads first. Then Wilwood.

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: Disc brake that actually stops smiling smiley
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: May 17, 2020 01:23PM

A master cylinder with a bigger bore. Like a 68 Camaro front disc rear drum Master cylinder. A dual master for a Corvairbrake system is not as good for a Vair with disc brakes.

Al Lane
Ellabell, GA 31308

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1966 Monza More Door 110 hp, PG
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ hp PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Disc brake that actually stops smiling smiley
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: May 18, 2020 05:27AM

I think we need more info, what calipers are being used and what master cylinder? The brake pads also make a difference.

As far a a "larger" master cyl? It is a matter of hydraulics and PSI. What does PSI mean? Pounds Per Square Inch. Your foot pushes at 30 lbs, multiply that by the lever length pushing on the master cylinder. The master cyl then makes a pressure that is then transmitted to the caliper. The more pressure on the caliper piston the better your stopping feel will be. It really is backwards to what you would think, bigger is better! LOL

I'm not going to do the math for you but a smaller master cylinder will have more PSI but also have more travel due to volume so it is a trade off, that is good to a point.

In the other thread I made mention of changing calipers and rotors on a Fiero. I kept the same master cylinder, the pedal was lower because of the volume difference but was very predictable.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Disc brake that actually stops smiling smiley
Date: May 18, 2020 12:12PM

vairmech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think we need more info, what calipers are being used and what master cylinder? The brake pads also make a difference.
>
> As far a a "larger" master cyl? It is a matter of hydraulics and PSI. What does PSI mean? Pounds Per Square Inch. Your foot pushes at 30 lbs, multiply that by the lever length pushing on the master cylinder. The master cyl then makes a pressure that is then transmitted to the caliper. The more pressure on the caliper piston the better your stopping feel will be. It really is backwards to what you would think, bigger is better! LOL
>
> I'm not going to do the math for you but a smaller master cylinder will have more PSI but also have more travel due to volume so it is a trade off, that is good to a point.
>
> In the other thread I made mention of changing calipers and rotors on a Fiero. I kept the same master cylinder, the pedal was lower because of the volume difference but was very predictable.

Went through this with A goldwing a few years back. Long story short after changing the stock caliper setup, had to change master to get the right feel/response. There's a chart for motorcycles somewhere, I don't know about cars.

1961 Corvair 700 Sedan - 3sp - Gasoline Heat - Lowered a bit - Rust in Progress
I live my life 19.5 seconds at a time.


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Re: Disc brake that actually stops smiling smiley
Posted by: Seth Emerson ()
Date: May 19, 2020 11:02AM

I had to go down to 3/4" masters on my balance-bar race car install to get enough pressure to stop.(4-wheel discs) The 7/8" masters gave me a nice hard pedal - but not enough pressure to stop the damn car!

Seth Emerson

Check my new Performance Corvair Web site [www.perfvair.com]

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Re: Disc brake that actually stops smiling smiley
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: May 20, 2020 11:17AM

vairmech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think we need more info, what calipers are being used and what master cylinder? The brake pads also make a difference.
>
> As far a a "larger" master cyl? It is a matter of hydraulics and PSI. What does PSI mean? Pounds Per Square Inch. Your foot pushes at 30 lbs, multiply that by the lever length pushing on the master cylinder. The master cyl then makes a pressure that is then transmitted to the caliper. The more pressure on the caliper piston the better your stopping feel will be. It really is backwards to what you would think, bigger is better! LOL
>
> I'm not going to do the math for you but a smaller master cylinder will have more PSI but also have more travel due to volume so it is a trade off, that is good to a point.
>
> In the other thread I made mention of changing calipers and rotors on a Fiero. I kept the same master cylinder, the pedal was lower because of the volume difference but was very predictable.

Good information. I am very leery of "garage designed" disc. brake systems. One issue commonly overlooked by amateurs is the brake fluid volume needed by a dual brake cylinder to operate the front of back circuit if one circuit fails.

Hopefully someone like Wilwood will make a comprehensive kit for the Corvair someday.

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Re: Disc brake that actually stops smiling smiley
Posted by: Wrencher ()
Date: May 23, 2020 08:56PM

I bought my kit from a fellow in Stockton CA, named Darrell Carter for my '65. He does (did) two systems, one with a single piston Caliper off of a late Cadillac (at the time)and a larger system off of a C-4 corvette with a dual master cylinder and four piston calipers. This was at least 20 years ago.

I use the smaller setup with the stock single reservoir master, velvet-touch rear shoes with stock drums and Ford DOT-4 fluid.

This will flat stop my car, and has for years, including a few 25 minute (about 8 laps) sessions on track with out noticeable fade, However, those track sessions required new rear drums after two or three 1 day events. The velvet-touch shoes tore 'em up pretty good, shoes still look like new thumbs up. I flushed the system after every track day.

I don't know if he is still around, he was pretty old when I went to his place to get the kit. He had a cool late model with a rootes blower, maybe a 4-71, on it, that thing looked bad ass.

Hans

The Larry Shinoda Collection: '65 Corvair Monza 140, '69 L-68 Corvette Roadster, '70 BOSS 302

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