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Update to transmission oil paper
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: April 30, 2020 04:53PM

I have just updated my paper on transmission oils, adding more comparisons with new products, graphs, etc.

More explication on viscosity, which seems to generate the most questions.

Transaxle oil - May 1, 2020 update

The old link still works too.

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
Selection of the right transmission oil for the corvair
How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim

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Re: Update to transmission oil paper
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: April 30, 2020 06:32PM

Wow! We're so lucky to have your expertise and advice. Thanks Richard!

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Update to transmission oil paper
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: April 30, 2020 07:38PM

Thanks Richard, When I first read the subject line I thought it was going to be about gasket materials. DUH I'm just getting old

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Update to transmission oil paper
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: April 30, 2020 07:39PM

thumbs up
Thank you Richard.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry

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Re: Update to transmission oil paper
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: April 30, 2020 08:46PM

Great information, thanks!

2 questions -

1) I picked up a '64 Corvair manual I have laying here and it calls for SAE 80 MIL-L-21058. Is it possible that Red Line crossed that to GL5?

2) You mention Dexron III for automatics. Why not VI? I haven't seen III for sale in a long time and from the limited reading I've done VI is better in every respect. I've been using it in all my automatics that call for any kind of Dexron from my Pettibone forklift to Powerglides and my wife's Outlook. I think the first and longest I've used it is in what was a really weak TH200 that now works great after 4 or 5 changes with VI.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: Update to transmission oil paper
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: April 30, 2020 10:02PM

Joel wrote:"ou mention Dexron III for automatics. Why not VI? I haven't seen III for sale in a long time"

Craig replies: I'll let Richard speak for himself on the recommendation but I will say you haven't seen Dexron III for a while because, GM, who controls that name will only license its use for the latest spec Dexron VI.

You can still buy "Dexron III" but it's sold under altered names that hint at its origin such as MD3 (Mercon/Dexron III) or Dex-Merc, and others.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Update to transmission oil paper
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: April 30, 2020 10:17PM

Found the picture.. Dexron III in one of it's disguised-name form.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Update to transmission oil paper
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: May 01, 2020 07:10AM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great information, thanks!
>
> 2 questions -
>
> 1) I picked up a '64 Corvair manual I have laying here and it calls for SAE 80 MIL-L-21058. Is it possible that Red Line crossed that to GL5?
>
> 2) You mention Dexron III for automatics. Why not VI? I haven't seen III for sale in a long time and from the limited reading I've done VI is better in every respect. I've been using it in all my automatics that call for any kind of Dexron from my Pettibone forklift to Powerglides and my wife's Outlook. I think the first and longest I've used it is in what was a really weak TH200 that now works great after 4 or 5 changes with VI.


On the Military spec, That would be 2105B (rather than 8). This is from a real old powerpoint presentation no my hard drive:
GL-4 MIL-L-2105B
GL-5 MIL-L-2105C

So they have assumed that GL-5 covers GL-4. And for gears, it does. They military spec does not cover synchronizers.

For the ATF, GM stopped licensing the Dexron III when they came out with the Dexron VI. That means that all manufacturers of Dexron III (which also covered the Mercon 4 spec) modified their product names to Dex/Merc, or some other variation. It is a formulation that satisfies power most steering systems and tones of agricultural and construction equipment, excellent as a multigrade hydraulic for winter equipment (log splitters), hydraulic lifts, and other things.

Dexron VI is required for newer transmissions that run much higher temperatures, and need to be able to pump fast and hard at cold temperatures. Here are the cold flow pumping characteristics of many of the ATFs

You can easily use Dexron VI in any earlier transmission, but since the the Corvair transmission does not operate (to my knowledge) over 70ºC, its main advantage over Dexron III would be for real cold climates. Dexron VI could also be used for longer periods of time, if not contaminated.

BTW, many of the products designed for Dexron VI applications are modified to also meet the Toyota WS, which pumps better in cold temperatures, as you see in the graph.

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
Selection of the right transmission oil for the corvair
How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2020 07:12AM by richard1.

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Re: Update to transmission oil paper
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: May 01, 2020 07:43AM

I just added that 2105B explanation to the paper.

Thanks for the question

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
Selection of the right transmission oil for the corvair
How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2020 07:44AM by richard1.

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Re: Update to transmission oil paper
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: May 01, 2020 07:47AM

My Allison was the last year to come from the factory with Dex III. Then they developed TransSynd

[dirtyhookerdiesel.com]

The stuff is a little pricey, but its good. They extended the trans warranty 100K if I changed it out before the trans had 20K on it.

From what I have read it will work well in any trans designed for DexIII, if you want to spend the bucks

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Update to transmission oil paper
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: May 01, 2020 08:10AM

Great paper Richard. But I found the Redline 75/90 Ns and the Swepco 201 the only gear oils that keep the syncros and the posi plates happy under severe racing conditions, In the 10 years ive been racing with these two oils, little to no syncro ring wear. Before I discovered them gear crunching and posi problems were constant. And yes the Mobil one engineer told me these problems didn't exist in the days of Lead.

1965 Crown V8 Racer
1964 Bill Thomas Monza Replica Racer
1964 Spyder Street Car
1979 Mazda RX7

Mike Levine

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Re: Update to transmission oil paper
Posted by: 4carbcorvair ()
Date: May 17, 2020 10:53AM

What do you think about using the universal synthetic transmission fluid?

--------------------------------
Ronnie
Southern Maine.
www.dirigocorvairs.net
66 Corsa Convertible, 140, 4sp.
65 Monza Convertible, 110, PG.




It doesn't leak, it's marking it's territory.

A mirror is a reflection of the miles travelled.

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