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Re: WTB: 66 140 Secondary lock-out cam, spring, rod and screw.
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: April 28, 2020 07:34PM

RexJohnson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think that you have the versions backwards.

I'll go with what the group concurs.

Anyone else have input? I identified them that way because my 66 has the thinner style and a pair of NOS replacement Rochester H carbs (still unused in the original boxes and Delco packaging) found locally has the thicker style. Those boxes are manually marked with a date of Feb 1967. Still not definitive of course as parts can be swapped in boxes and I know this engine is not all original to the 66 chassis.

Also saw this reference that may confirm I've got them backwards. The NOS carbs in tne boxes were marked 7031441. Those are called out here as a second design for 1965 if I'm reading things right.
[gmpartswiki.com]

Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
65 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4 w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza Convertible 110/4
66 Monza Convertible 140/4 A/C
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2020 07:36PM by azdave.

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Re: WTB: 66 140 Secondary lock-out cam, spring, rod and screw.
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: April 29, 2020 09:31AM

The second design for '65 should be for carbs with the lock outs as the first ones didn't have them. I have a '66 140 that has most of the lockout parts removed but the small link on the chock shaft is there and it has the small hole in it. Your second version was probably used for a very short time until they saw that it would not clear the smog pump. It is possible that one style was used on the engines with smog and the other style without smog until the old parts were used up.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

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Re: WTB: 66 140 Secondary lock-out cam, spring, rod and screw.
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: April 29, 2020 12:26PM

Maybe we'll never know for sure when the assembly line used those parts. I'm still searching for more info from those in the know.

Here is a photo provided by davemotohead in a 2013 carb thread where he says this picture shows an unmolested secondary he removed from a 66/140. It shows the thin linkage in use. Maybe I should just label the comparison photos as two different versions and let the user decide which came first? smiling smiley




Here is another pic uploaded by Paul Kehler in 2014. He said these were 66 secondaries and again I see thin parts.


This thread with comments by Steve Goodman say the fatter is early 66 and the thinner later. Seems convincing to me.
[corvaircenter.com]

Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
65 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4 w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza Convertible 110/4
66 Monza Convertible 140/4 A/C
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2020 12:31PM by azdave.

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Re: WTB: 66 140 Secondary lock-out cam, spring, rod and screw.
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: April 29, 2020 01:22PM

It is/was my understanding that the larger linkage pieces was early and the reason for the change is the shorter length of the casting 'hole' that the shaft runs through in the carb top. (the place a choke shaft would pass through on a primary carb. That was in the way of either the A/C pump or the smog pump or maybe both together. I frankly cannot say with absolute positive, just my recollection.

I remember someone specifically asking for that design and I was able to find the parts for them but too much time has passed for me to remember a name. Sorry all, the best I can offer and/or recall.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC/V8 Registry

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Re: WTB: 66 140 Secondary lock-out cam, spring, rod and screw.
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: April 29, 2020 05:56PM

The clearness problem is the smog pump as the 140 A/C uses the high mount bracket to clear the whole secondary carb. Those pictures saying that they are '66 would be correct because a '66 140 smog engine would have to use them. The time frame for the 2 versions is probably more like late '65 for the 1st design and '66 and later for the second design with a possible overlap of the two in early '66.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

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Re: WTB: 66 140 Secondary lock-out cam, spring, rod and screw.
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: April 29, 2020 06:55PM

You guys are right (of course) about the thicker parts being version #1 and thin being version #2. I have examples to share tomorrow to show and will get the prior info corrected.

Stay tuned...

Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
65 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4 w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza Convertible 110/4
66 Monza Convertible 140/4 A/C
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5



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Re: WTB: 66 140 Secondary lock-out cam, spring, rod and screw.
Posted by: corvairgreg ()
Date: April 30, 2020 04:28AM

My 66 Corsa 140 convertible with a 4th week of May production date has the thin style lockout linkage. With this production date, it could have either the 66 or 67-69 style I think, depending when the switchover occurred. Based on the latest info above, this seems to be the later style.

The car also is drilled for the dual master brake line but was built with a single master system - the second hole is plugged. I am the second owner and it was very original when I got it, so I feel reasonably sure the parts are original to the car.

Greg

Greg Hanlin
Dayton OH

1964 Monza Convertible
1965 Corsa Convertible
1966 Corsa Convertible
1963 Greenbrier

Dayton Corvair Club
CORSA

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Re: WTB: 66 140 Secondary lock-out cam, spring, rod and screw.
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: April 30, 2020 03:00PM

Okay. As they say, I couldn't see the forest for the trees.

As has been pointed out here, the reason for the revised secondary lock-out linkage was due to the addition of smog pumps began in 66. The rear of the pump needed more room between it and the secondary carb on the passenger side so everything got smaller and thinner.

What I didn't notice (what was right in front of me the whole time) was that the entire top of the secondary carbs are different too! When the lock-out linkage got thinned out the carb top casting was changed as well and that took about 1" off the length of the cross linkage tube and rod that control the throttle lock-out levers.

Now I can look at a secondary carb top and know in just a few seconds whether it needs version one or two parts. Nearly all of my secondaries are the later style narrow tops needing small lock-out linkages. Most of mine are missing the lock-out parts of course but I'm sure it's because people tossed them out when they got tired of trying to set them up properly.

I will ask Matt to delete my earlier photos above that are identified incorrectly. These new photos below show the correct info. I have eliminated specific references to when the change-over happened because I think it was a soft change that happened first only with Corvairs built to be sold in California.

Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
65 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4 w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza Convertible 110/4
66 Monza Convertible 140/4 A/C
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5



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Re: WTB: 66 140 Secondary lock-out cam, spring, rod and screw.
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: April 30, 2020 03:00PM

More pics...

Hope I got it all right this time. smiling smiley

Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
65 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4 w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza Convertible 110/4
66 Monza Convertible 140/4 A/C
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2020 03:04PM by azdave.

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Re: WTB: 66 140 Secondary lock-out cam, spring, rod and screw.
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: April 30, 2020 09:05PM

Thanks Dave for posting the picture of the engine that I needed to show just how close that pump is to the carb, a pencil might fit there. A question on the carb tops, is the first design lock out carb top the same as the primary top? I know that the 1st secondary carb tops were different because there was no hole for a shaft to pass thru.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

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Re: WTB: 66 140 Secondary lock-out cam, spring, rod and screw.
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: April 30, 2020 09:39PM

Thanks! Great work!

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 113 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: WTB: 66 140 Secondary lock-out cam, spring, rod and screw.
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: May 01, 2020 05:17AM

RexJohnson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A question on the carb tops, is the first design lock out carb top the same as the primary top?

It looks that way to me. All of the secondary carb tops I have with the longer choke rod cross shafts (1st throttle lock-out linkage design) appear to be standard primary carb tops visually. I certain the intent would have been to use the primary tops for both primary and secondary (until the problem with the smog pumps came along).

Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
65 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4 w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza Convertible 110/4
66 Monza Convertible 140/4 A/C
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5



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