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I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: March 22, 2020 09:09AM

Why on earth do so many LM Corvair doors rust here?


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Re: I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: March 22, 2020 09:16AM

Dirt collects, gets wet with rain or washing, stays moist for a long time = rust out.sad smiley

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: March 22, 2020 09:17AM

Not enough drainage and braking forces higher than acceleration forces?

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: March 22, 2020 09:26AM

Plus, this isn't the first time someone has addressed this area. Cavity Wax is your friend.

'29 Ford Model A Tudor
'61 700 Lakewood 110 4 speed
'69 Monza Convert. 140 Auto.
'70 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 4 speed

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio

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Re: I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: March 22, 2020 09:41AM

JimBrandberg Wrote:
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> Not enough drainage and braking forces higher than acceleration forces?

That's my leading theory. Plus factory paint is very thin there. Tends to rust on the inside and outside of this area...

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Re: I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: March 23, 2020 07:36AM

When the inner panel is stamped, and then the outer panel is affixed to it, both parts have virtually no rustproofing on their surfaces. What little is applied only can withstand moisture for a short time. On my cars, when the door panels are off, I use a dental pick to clean out any debris that might be laying at the bottom of the door, and then blow it out with high pressure compressed air. Once I feel that there is no debris at the bottom of the door, I spray the inside surfaces and the seam with Cosmoline. This is the same product that Ziebart uses for rustproofing cars. It smells for a while, but it appears to keep rust away. I will retreat the surfaces whenever I have a reason to open up a door for service.
You can purchase Cosmoline in a spray can from www.MSCdirect.com It is sold under the SprayOn label. MSC Industrial Supply Co. Part #:00259416 Mfr Part #confused smileyC0710000 The present cost is $11.87 a can.

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Woodstock CT... Located on the Connecticut / Massachusetts border, approximately 6 miles from the center of Southbridge MA. About 45 minutes from Hartford CT. 1 1/2 hours West of Boston MA. Woodstock CT to Los Angeles CA 2,937.1 miles. 1 Mile as the crow flies to Big Bird's nest.

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Re: I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: The Stig ()
Date: March 23, 2020 07:50AM

I washed the drivers door out on my new '66 this weekend. Two inches of dust and debris. Here in a New Mexico car. Drain holes were plugged.

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Re: I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: March 23, 2020 08:46AM

junkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When the inner panel is stamped, and then the outer panel is affixed to it, both parts have virtually no rustproofing on their surfaces. What little is applied only can withstand moisture for a short time. On my cars, when the door panels are off, I use a dental pick to clean out any debris that might be laying at the bottom of the door, and then blow it out with high pressure compressed air. Once I feel that there is no debris at the bottom of the door, I spray the inside surfaces and the seam with Cosmoline. This is the same product that Ziebart uses for rustproofing cars. It smells for a while, but it appears to keep rust away. I will retreat the surfaces whenever I have a reason to open up a door for service.
> You can purchase Cosmoline in a spray can from www.MSCdirect.com It is sold under the SprayOn label. MSC Industrial Supply Co. Part #:00259416 Mfr Part #confused smileyC0710000 The present cost is $11.87 a can.


Great tip! I had not considered the dental pick approach, but you are right, there can still be dirt down in the seam. I'll get some of that spray too.

Mike

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Re: I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: wittsend ()
Date: March 23, 2020 09:51AM

As noted dust, debris etc. accumulate. There is likely minimal paint getting in that area. Also, notice where the drain slot is. Do you park on an incline? The water will run down into an area that does not drain.

I do a number of things with my old cars (not necessarily Corvairs). I drill holes at the most forward and rearward sections so there is drainage when on an incline. I saturate the lower, internal seam with Phosphoric Acid and eventually flush it with alcohol. After a few days to dry I liberally paint the whole lower 2-3 inches of the inner panel with POR-15. POR-15 states that it does not prevent rust unless it is on bare metal. But, it tends to dry to a thicker somewhat flexible membrane than regular paint. In my mind I see it similar to a pool liner.

I have a love/hate relationship with POR-15. However, I have a Studebaker Daytona that most would have replaced the rusted floorboards. It was riddled with many fine holes and some as large as a quarter. I used POR-15 and a fine mesh they sell (probably available at hobby stores too) and nearly ten years later this is still holding up perfectly fine.

If you intend a pristine, concourse car this is not likely for you. But otherwise sometimes the effort (or cost) of such repairs is not worth the value of the car.

Attachments:

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Re: I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: March 23, 2020 09:59AM

I'm having my floor repaired by cutting out the rusted metal and welding in new steel.



Then working like crazy to make sure the cowl area is sealed as good as new.

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Re: I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: March 23, 2020 10:56AM

Rust never sleeps, and you have to protect both sides from rust. On the late model cars, floor rust is a result of the metal rusting out just below and in the track of the windshield opening. On the early models, GM put a drain on the upper part of the trunk, just behind a standing seam. This drain is right over the gas tank in the middle of the car. On the earliest of the earlier cars, they installed a drain plug, the same one that is used on the gasoline filler pocket. Later on, they just put a wad of dum-dum from the inside to keep the water from soaking the carpet, when you have a trunk leak, which was quite common. Eventually this dum-dum would dry up, and the floor would get wet. Installing this drain tube is necessary to fix the problem. This hole passes from inside the trunk, through the interior of the car, and through a metal hole just above the fuel tank. Hard to describe it accurately, but if you have an early, look into the hole and you will see what I am referring to. The second hole is actually part of the floor pan where it is joined to the trunk. I have found that if you enlarge the hole inside of the trunk ever so slightly, that the drain tube will fit in flat with the surrounding metal. Stopping trunk leaks in a Corvair is sometimes next to impossible. I use the dollar method to find where the trunk panel isn't tight on the rubber. Put a dollar bill ($100 bill if you are wealthygrinning smiley) between the trunk rubber and the lid. Close the trunk, and pull on the bill to see how easy it comes out. If it comes out easy, that is where the water is getting into the trunk. If it pulls hard, you have a good seal.

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Woodstock CT... Located on the Connecticut / Massachusetts border, approximately 6 miles from the center of Southbridge MA. About 45 minutes from Hartford CT. 1 1/2 hours West of Boston MA. Woodstock CT to Los Angeles CA 2,937.1 miles. 1 Mile as the crow flies to Big Bird's nest.

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Re: I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: March 23, 2020 11:03AM

GM never expected for this stuff to be around 50 in the future.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: March 23, 2020 11:26AM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
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> GM never expected for this stuff to be around 50 in the future.


True, but most of the rust I'm seeing probably happened in the first 5 years of the car's life. grinning smiley

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Re: I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: March 23, 2020 12:52PM

True I was getting some rust issues on mine by the time it was four years old. The lower front fender just behind the wheel well.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: I just can’t figure this out.
Posted by: curt ()
Date: March 23, 2020 01:19PM

Rusters were the norm till Detroit decided to make rusting a much lessor problem. By the 80's cars did a lot less rusting: inner fenders, drainage,holes and I think coating inner sides doors.

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