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Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: Ron in Indy ()
Date: February 06, 2020 11:00AM

I'm still struggling to diagnose this engine compartment noise. So far, I've replaced the belt, adjusted the fan belt tension, replaced the idler pulley bearing, and greased the fan bearing (using the Clarks gizmo) in addition to checking everything I can for tightness, and lube. Nothing seems to make the noise go away completely, although you can hopefully hear in the videos that it is somewhat intermittent. I took off the belt and ran the engine briefly and the noise is gone. I even shot a little fan belt conditioner on the new belt in case it was somehow caused by slippage, but nothing really changes. My understanding is that this is not the typical growl/howl that you expect from a failing fan bearing. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Ron in Indy (FL)
spyder chirp II
Spyder chirp I

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: February 06, 2020 11:07AM

Are the fan blades clearing the turkey roaster. I've had mine slip up, as have others.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: Ron in Indy ()
Date: February 06, 2020 11:10AM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are the fan blades clearing the turkey roaster. I've had mine slip up, as have others.


They appear to be. I can remove the belt and spin the fan without hearing the noise.
Thanks, Ron in Indy (FL)

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 06, 2020 11:12AM

Try to lift the fan with belt off... when the shaft is loose in the casting... they CLIMB.

Also, take a block of wood and Mallet and Try to move it downward... cant hurt..

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2020 11:13AM by MattNall.

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: February 06, 2020 11:28AM

Does the noise go away when running with the fan belt off? Obviously you don't want to run it long without the belt but for a short time it is alright.

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 06, 2020 11:33AM

Ron wrote: I took off the belt and ran the engine briefly and the noise is gone.

I even shot a little fan belt conditioner on the new belt in case it was somehow caused by slippage, but nothing really changes.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: February 06, 2020 11:49AM

Ron: Do you have the stock 63 cooling fan? If so the construction of the fan is in pieces. The blades are separate from the 'base' which is kinda cone shaped and top is under the pulley. Each blade has tabs and the 'base' has slots and the tabs go through the slots and then bent over. I see many where the blades are loose in those tab/slot areas. The noise is interesting. With engine off tap each of the blades either with a finer or gently with small screwdriver handle. You can hear difference if some are loose and some are tight. Just a thought....

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC/V8 Registry

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: Ron in Indy ()
Date: February 06, 2020 02:43PM

steve c goodman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ron: Do you have the stock 63 cooling fan? If so the construction of the fan is in pieces. The blades are separate from the 'base' which is kinda cone shaped and top is under the pulley. Each blade has tabs and the 'base' has slots and the tabs go through the slots and then bent over. I see many where the blades are loose in those tab/slot areas. The noise is interesting. With engine off tap each of the blades either with a finer or gently with small screwdriver handle. You can hear difference if some are loose and some are tight. Just a thought....
Thanks Steve,
Yes, I believe this is the original fan. I'll see if any of the blades are loose. Matt, I checked again, and no play (up/down or side/side) with the fan pulley. The good news is that the car seems to run OK, even at high RPMs. No unusual wear on the belt that I found. The only other pulley that I haven't checked is the generator. I don't hear the squeak when I turn it by hand, but I can't spin it very fast.
Cheers,
Ron in Indy (FL)

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: February 06, 2020 02:49PM

Generator has bronze bushing on outer end. Have you made a practice of a couple drops of oil into both oil cups occasionally? The bushing can do a squeak sound when belt tension is applied.

I use a very long screwdriver as a stethoscope when listening to bearings. Handle end to my ear and sharp end touching surface near each bearing.

The sound of dry bearings is usually easy to hear. Good luck figuring it out.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC/V8 Registry

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: Ron in Indy ()
Date: February 06, 2020 04:21PM

OK, I think I may have found the problem. I thought I would try a different style belt instead of the slotted-grooved belt I normally use. I had an older Otto belt (no grooves) that I put on and it didn't seem to help. When I was going to take it off, I noticed that a stripe was now worn on the outside (see pic) After looking closer, I saw that it was rubbing against the idler pulley belt guide (which was pretty warm at this point) eye popping smiley I recall that the guide was a little bent when I put it on, so I'll take it off tomorrow and see if I can realign it to clear the belt. Hopefully the mystery is solved.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
Cheers,
Ron in Indy (FL)

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: February 06, 2020 04:26PM

Ron that pic looks curious to me, normally the belt would be wide and flat across the pulley but yours looks pointed/narrow. Has the belt turned over in the groove around the crank pulley or is it just the pic/ Or just me??

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC/V8 Registry

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: Ron in Indy ()
Date: February 06, 2020 05:40PM

Steve,
I think it was on properly. Bad lighting and the white stripe makes it look odd? Then again, it was sitting in the box with my misc. stuff so perhaps for a different car? I will reinstall the slotted belt tomorrow and check for clearance. Also, I have been pretty good with keeping the generator cups full, but good point about the bushing. Unfortunately, I gave away my spare generator before I moved, so I can't swap it out until I secure a replacement. Fingers crossed that it is the belt rubbing against the idler pulley guide.

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: February 06, 2020 10:18PM

Gotta agree with Steve on this.
It sure looks like your belt takes a twist the wrong direction as it comes out of the Crank Pulley.
It appears to be upside down in your picture, even taking the "stripe" into account!
It should have the narrowest edge facing the bottom of the groove.
It may be, but it sure doesn't look like it!

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: Ron in Indy ()
Date: February 07, 2020 08:04AM

You guys are right. The belt without the notches is definitely narrower and sits taller in the pulleys. It is listed as a Otto parts c8704, but the geometry seems very different (almost triangular) Anyway, I put the notched belt back on. Without and with the idler pulley guard, it still squeaks. Back to the drawing board. confused smiley

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: February 07, 2020 08:19AM

Did you try my other suggestion of listening at each bearing with a long screwdriver OR buying a stethoscope from a tool place?

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC/V8 Registry

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: Ron in Indy ()
Date: February 07, 2020 08:42AM

steve c goodman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you try my other suggestion of listening at each bearing with a long screwdriver OR buying a stethoscope from a tool place?


Yes, I tried that last night. It's a little hard to tell, but there still seems to be a bit of an intermittent rumble in the idler pulley, even though I replaced the bearing. I'm thinking about trying the Clarks belt tensioner kit. Any experience with these? [www.corvair.com]

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: February 07, 2020 08:59AM

Ron I would find another idler pulley and try it. Remember that just because a part is new does NOT mean it is good.

There are numerous Corvair owners in Indianapolis you could contact. Do you belong to CORSA? I see many members in Indianapolis. Local club too.

I would NOT suggest the spring loaded idlers but others may argue the point.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC/V8 Registry

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: Ron in Indy ()
Date: February 07, 2020 09:40AM

steve c goodman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ron I would find another idler pulley and try it. Remember that just because a part is new does NOT mean it is good.
>
> There are numerous Corvair owners in Indianapolis you could contact. Do you belong to CORSA? I see many members in Indianapolis. Local club too.
>
> I would NOT suggest the spring loaded idlers but others may argue the point.
Steve,
You are correct about a strong corvair community in the Indy area. Circle City Corvair club is very active, and the LeVeques are a great resource. We are actually in Central Florida now, since last Fall. I decided to keep my user name on the site, but I'm sorry about the confusion. I touched base with the Central FL Corvair Club, but haven't been able to make it to any meetings or events yet. I think I may have a spare idler pulley in my stash, although the condition is unknown. I'm curious why you don't like the spring loaded idlers. It seems that this could be a design improvement, analogous to a serpentine belt tensioner in a modern car.
Cheers,
Ron in Indy (FL)

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: February 07, 2020 10:43AM

Ron in Indy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>The belt without the notches is definitely narrower and sits taller in the pulleys.

It shouldn't sit higher in the pulley. That really looks like it is upside down to me also. Not your squeak problem obviously.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 114 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: Engine squeaks/rattles 63 Spyder
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 07, 2020 10:49AM

BELT IS UPSIDE DOWN!!


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