Corvair DiagramCorvair Photo
Corvair Center
home forum corvairs calendar links Corvair Podcast
California Corvairs
Clarks Corvair
Clarks Corvair
“CORSA"



Chevy Corvair License Plate
Chevy Corvair Chrome Wheel
Corvair Center Forum :  Corvair Center Phorum The fastest message board... ever.
Corvair Center 
Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: jjeffb ()
Date: January 07, 2020 04:24PM

After a complete valve job with new lifter (Elgins). I adjusted the valves using the hot engine method, 1/2 turn in after clatter just stopped. All was well and the engine sounded great.
I turned the engine off happy,and buttoned up the valve covers etc muffler.
Next morning I started the engine and it had a Very BAD valve lifter like tapping sound on one cylinder. I let the car warm up slowly as not to damage anything and eventually the tapping sound stopped at idle and became barely audible at a high rpm. Damn??
Maybe one of the new lifters went flat overnight as the engine cooled off?
The valve seats were peened (staked) as part of the valve job so I doubt that a seat dropped the first time the engine was run, not driven. What the he??
I'm going to break it down and re-adjust the valves again but I'd swear that they were adjusted correctly the first time. This is not my first rodeo!
Anybody out there had a similar experience?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: jcorvair ()
Date: January 07, 2020 04:32PM

This can happen. If it does it every time you drive the car and shut it off for the night then it might be a bad lifter.

James
West Kelowna, BC

1965 Corvair, Corsa, Convertible 180/4 - Artesian Turquoise w/ white interior
1966 Corvair Corsa Coupe, 140/4 - Aztec Bronze w/ black interior
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Turbo
2016 Dodge 3500 Crew Cab 4x4 (for hauling cars, trailers, fifth wheels, quads, etc.)
2013 Victory Car Hauler (enclosed)
2019 Express Car Hauler (Aluminum, Enclosed)
2015 Polaris 570 EPS
2016 Polaris 570 SP
2017 Corvette Z06 Convertible
2019 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Ltd.
2020 Corvette HTC 3LT,Z51,FE4 (on order)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: TerribleTed ()
Date: January 07, 2020 04:57PM

When I replace lifters I always adjust, let the car sit overnight, start and adjust again, and maybe let the car sit and do it one more time before I seal it up. I do not however usually have issues with loose adjustments. usually it is a valve slightly holding open because a lifter finally got fully pumped up after a time or 2. Can happen that new lifters were a little tight and loosened up once they got well lubed which might result in clatter.

Did you replace the camshaft? generally not a great idea to run new lifters on an old camshaft as they need to wear in to each other and every now and then this wear in can kill a cam lobe. hope this has not happened to you but it is possible. All you can do is pull off the valve covers and look very closely at which ever rockers are noisy and tr4y a readjust.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Avid Corvair hobbiest since 1984.
I have personally performed ground up restoration on over 20 Corvairs.
I currently work full time at restoring and repairing Corvairs.
Located in the Atlanta Georgia area.
[www.facebook.com]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: Ronnie ()
Date: January 10, 2020 02:43AM

I have had problems with noisy lifters if I don't run the engine to full operating temperature before turning it off. For example, if I start the engine (cold) and just drive the Corvair into the garage and parks it there, the next time I start the engine, some of the lifters are noisy until the engine gets warm.

I never have this problem if the engine is fully warmed up when I park the car, only if the engine is run just for a couple of minutes.

Ronnie Stensson
Sweden

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: January 10, 2020 02:49PM

Ive always adjusted the valves Cold, not running. One turn down from zero lash. I think people get in trouble when after a few minutes of running and its still clattering. If the shop manual confuses, just do one cylinder at a time, Using the firing order. Sometimes it takes 30+ minutes of idling before they stop making noise.
I don't think Chevy had a guy at the end of the assembly line adjusting valves running smiling smiley Mike

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: irfgt ()
Date: January 11, 2020 03:18AM

1/2 is not tight enough. One at least.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: January 11, 2020 07:05AM

irfgt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1/2 is not tight enough. One at least.


Please let us in on the secret as to why 1/2 turn is not enough and what is recommended. What are the advantages of 1 turn or more? Also what is the max that you suggest I go? I'm building a new engine this winter and will be doing a cold valve adjustment and only want to do it once.
PM me if necessary.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: January 11, 2020 08:19AM

I have used 3/4 for years and years. Not all lifters are the same. In theory some folks state they should be centered in the middle of the full travel for best performance. The easy way to find that out with the engine running is back off until you have loud clatter. Now go in slowly, counting the number of turns, until you have a steady miss. now divide that number of turns by 2 and back it off the amount.

The 1/2 and less thing happened when folks, mostly racing rev'd to high and the lifters pumped up. The recovery time was much shorter with less preload.

I like to use a .001 feeler gauge rather than the twist push rod method, less chance for error. Also I'm in no rush so I pull the distributor cap and turn the engine or by hand and do the cylinder that is at TDC then move on to the next. Its real easy to get mixed up when you go by the two position method. I have AADD.

I did it cold on my last build, then checked a couple running after the cam burn in run. They were all dead on. Then I double checked them cold to see if anything changed, they were all exactly as originally set.


For some reason which I don't know there seems to be a different amount of oil delivery to the rockers depending on the preload. If someone else has noticed this or knows why, jump in.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: January 11, 2020 07:30PM

OK, 1961 shop manual says 3/4 turn for Turbo Air Motor (note this is Madison Avenue speak, for the 80 HP engine in 1961) and 1 1/4 turns for the Super Turbo Air Motor (the 98 HP? again, no turbo equipped Corvair in 1961).

Then we get to the 1965 shop manual and it is 1 turn for all engines.

I always go 1/2 to 3/4, but that is me.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: January 11, 2020 08:56PM

I adjusted my own valves once, it seemed to be all right but when I took it in a little later to an actual Corvair guy, he said it wasn't bad but it was a little tight. He did it over again for me and so far the car is running great. Anyway, I only said this because I still don't understand what lash even means. Somebody wanna dumb that down for us like we're on Sesame Street?

____________________________________________

Eric C. Player, Porterville, CA, USA (Seriously! It's the USA out here!)
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and the San Joaquin Valley Corvair Club.
THEN:
1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow
1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red
1966 Monza 110, Purple
1967 Monza 140, Red
1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow"
1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW:
1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"

"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 11, 2020 10:36PM

"Lashing the Valves " is ADJUSTING them.

Some call the "clearance" between valve's stem and Rocker arm at that cylinder's TDC the "lash"

Our Hydraulic lifters have ZERO lash + 1/2 turn in further.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: January 11, 2020 11:13PM

Thank you, sir.

____________________________________________

Eric C. Player, Porterville, CA, USA (Seriously! It's the USA out here!)
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and the San Joaquin Valley Corvair Club.
THEN:
1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow
1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red
1966 Monza 110, Purple
1967 Monza 140, Red
1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow"
1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW:
1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"

"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: January 12, 2020 04:08AM

I adjusted mine cold 12 years ago and have never had any lifter noise unless I the car has been sitting for weeks. I expect a couple of seconds when I start it today after sitting 3 months.

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
Selection of the right transmission oil for the corvair
How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: January 12, 2020 05:51AM

One tip that has worked for me is to crank the engine for about 20 or 30 seconds, without setting the choke, after the car has sat for a while.This may or may not be enough to turn the oil light out. Anyway, this seems to get oil in the lifters faster than actually starting it.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Next morning valve clatter
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: January 12, 2020 12:16PM

If a new valve lifter persists in clattering then it may need replacement.

While rare, I did have to replace a brand new lifter that was defective.

As a old time Vair enthusiast in the local club likes to say "Just because it's new doesn't mean it's good."

Options: ReplyQuote


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.