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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: rowin4 ()
Date: January 03, 2020 09:49PM

toms73novass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> racingguy2 Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > "If you're starting from scratch what about the copper berylium alloy or whatever it's called seats that are available these days."
>
>
> Unless I am mistaken, be very careful with Berylium Copper:
>
> Inhalation of dust, mist, or fume containing beryllium can cause the serious lung condition, chronic beryllium disease. That disease affects primarily the lungs, restricting the exchange of oxygen between the lungs and the bloodstream. The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) lists beryllium as a Group 1 Human Carcinogen. The National Toxicology Program (NTP) also lists beryllium as a carcinogen.


Hey I know all about that. Back in the 60"s I was having some breathing problems. The specialist didn't know what was going on so I booked a flight to Denver to the lung Research Center. They cut me open and cut out a chunk of my lung. Had it analyzed and it came up that Beryllium was clogging up my lungs. After returning home I went back to the specialist for breathing evaluations every other week. It was getting so bad I calculated when I would be unable to breath, I recall it was September. Then the progression stopped and I continued on for the next 45 years

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: racingguy2 ()
Date: January 04, 2020 08:18AM

Yikes! Glad you're still with us!

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: Brizo ()
Date: January 04, 2020 09:04AM

Rowin4! Were were you getting the Beryllium in you lungs from in the 60's?

Dan Brizendine,
'64 8door Greenbrier 140 PG. "In beautiful Wanamaker Indiana...with one stop light and 5 pizza shops"

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: January 04, 2020 09:26AM

I knew a guy that bought a piece of scrap X-15 to salvage the Inconel skin.

He started drilling out the rivets and ended up in the hospital.

The rivets were made from some form of Beryllium Copper.

Apparently NASA did know what they were doing.

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: January 04, 2020 09:31AM

Speaking of Inconel that is what your exhaust valves must be made from.

Inconel retains it's room temperature characteristics to 1500 degrees

Stainless will work for intake but Inconel is better there also.

Titanium would also be a good choice for intake valves.

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: racingguy2 ()
Date: January 04, 2020 12:32PM

I worked at a place called Trick Titanium, which specialized in titanium valves and bellhousings. Our general rule was titanium exhaust valves where good up to 1200 degrees F., EGT. At about 1300 deg. the stems start to gall, you stick a valve, and CrUnCh.

Photo of another billet head I worked on, and a bunch of their titanium valves at the PRI show last year:

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: January 04, 2020 12:41PM

Those valves in the head are MONSTERS!... awesome!! what was the application for the heads?

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: racingguy2 ()
Date: January 04, 2020 12:46PM

This is a Kalitta top fuel head. 12,000 hp blown nitro.
For size reference, those are 2.950" intake valves in the head.

Oh! And you can see some of the Moldstar valve seats in the top right corner!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2020 12:47PM by racingguy2.

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 05, 2020 02:37PM

. Horsepower TALK has it's own Topic now!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2020 02:43PM by MattNall.

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: racingguy2 ()
Date: January 05, 2020 05:39PM

Matt, Thanks for all the hard work moderating us squirrels!

I just met Ken Hand today! OMG is this guy an amazing wealth of knowledge and old school wisdom! We had some great discussions regarding the billet head design and he had many good suggestions to help make this a better and more practical solution! I'm still writing up notes!
Ken, thank you again for your time!

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 06, 2020 06:29AM

It was nice meeting you also. It will be interesting seeing the blending of the old with the new.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: REM654DPG ()
Date: January 12, 2020 09:13PM

This is a great topic racingguy2, I’m excited to see the final product and can appreciate all the R&D, time and effort and just the willingness to take on this project and I wish you the best.

Just for curiosity sake I do have a few questions though:

Would these billet heads have a 6 bolt valve cover surface

Would/could they have a deeper cavity to fit roller rockers with stock valve covers

Would they be designed after the 66 style casting w/extra material on ends

What would the valve stem size be – stock 11/32 or maybe 5/16 as an option

Valve angles and sizes – would they be 140 style and/or larger

Exhaust tube size and configuration – would they be machined to fit stock 140 tubes, angle tubes or both. And/or would they be larger diameter.

Chamber volume - What would the standard chamber volume be and would there be ample material to machine it to a lower volume

And last, just a dream as I don’t expect anything to ever come of it but here’s what popped into my head while reading all of this stuff.

The Corvair has a unique unsymmetrical cylinder stud configuration as shown in the attached print. Looking at the case from the head end of the studs the lower right stud is offset further outboard by .075 on the X axis and the lower left one is .010 closer to the cylinder seat edge than the upper two. I don’t know if anyone knows why GM did this as it makes no sense and doesn’t seem to solve any obvious problem but it’s there. It would be cool if this could be modified, the studs placed further away from the edge and make this distance/dimension the same or symmetrical for all four studs.

If our sole purpose here is to make more horsepower – wouldn’t it be cool if we could fit some big bore cylinders into these heads without cutting into the stud holes and removing half of the cylinder seat gasket surface in the block. The limiting factor here in a new head design would begin with the block or case and the spacing/location of these head studs. Until you modify this stud spacing and the bore size capability of the case these billet heads will be limited to the stock stud configuration and would be no more adaptable to larger bore modifications than a stock GM head. Start with a new case that is configured stud wise for a larger bore and then incorporate those specs/dimensions into the new head.

I know, I’m just dreaming here and it’s probably way more work than it’s worth designing and machining a new case. And, that changing the location on the lower studs would affect and change the rocker to valve tip alignment and valve angles but it would still be cool – just like a SCAT VW case.

Or, it’s even possible with a stock case, that if these stud holes were to be offset in just the heads you could match and relocate the studs in the case - within limits - to allow a better fit for some big bore cylinders.

Anyway, just my thoughts for the day.

Regan Metcalf
Portland, OR

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: REM654DPG ()
Date: January 12, 2020 09:32PM

Sorry for the big picture it was a different file for me to edit. Anyway, here's a couple more pics that show a little more detail of the mystery offset lower stud holes in the cylinder head. Still don't know why GM would do that.

Regan Metcalf
Portland, OR

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: John Luscinski ()
Date: January 13, 2020 04:24AM

That has to be a mistake. You should see if you can a dimension from the case to verify the head size. There should be a basic tolerance for bolt holes.. I will drawing one up in Solidworks for you..

Over 22 years of experience as a Mechanical Design Engineer.

"Been there and done that! Well Not everything.smiling smiley
65 500 2dr Coupe
63 Greenbrier

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: John Luscinski ()
Date: January 13, 2020 04:36AM

I believe the dimension should be a in basic condition 1.30 condition.

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: John Luscinski ()
Date: January 13, 2020 05:11AM

It also could be 1.25" as well..

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 13, 2020 05:52AM

If you want what was and not someone's drawing, here is the factory dimensions!



Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: racingguy2 ()
Date: January 13, 2020 08:02AM

The stud holes in my heads are based off of the GM print, as Ken provided. The asymmetry Regan brought up is due to the tolerance and the ordinate dimensioning not being datumed from the center of the port.

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: racingguy2 ()
Date: January 13, 2020 10:34AM

Also, just an update, I have everything ready to machine the first set, as soon as we get electric in the shop!
It's been a comedy show. Failed first electrical inspection because the electrician put in wire rated for 180 amps on a 200 amp service. He was on vacation, but came and replaced it when he got home. Then my biz partner started talking to the electric company, and found out there was actually 400 amp service available, so he decided to upgrade. Which annoyed the electrician, but he came out and replaced the wiring again. Unfortunately, it failed inspection again and the electrician has said he doesn't want to work on it anymore. So, on to a new electrical contractor...

Oh, and for those that aren't in the Michigan area, we've had some weird rain/ice/flooding. And we are putting cable underground, and have had the trench dug for weeks. So now we have a river next to the shop!

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Re: Billet cylinder heads UPDATE!!
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 13, 2020 10:53AM

AHH Life!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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