Corvair DiagramCorvair Photo
Corvair Center
home forum corvairs calendar links Corvair Podcast
California Corvairs
Clarks Corvair
Clarks Corvair
“CORSA"



Chevy Corvair License Plate
Chevy Corvair Chrome Wheel
Corvair Center Forum :  Corvair Center Phorum The fastest message board... ever.
Corvair Center 
Shifter
Posted by: Vairefast ()
Date: November 28, 2019 06:54PM

I have been working on a new project car I picked up about a month ago. Working on the shifter atm. Fairly stock 65 monza vert 4 speed.

All the spacers where missing and it was bolted to the floor with less then ideal bolts. Stock press in bolts where replaced.. poorly. Shifter was not happy. Made the shifting very stiff. I put a few washers to raise the shifter up a tad so not to bury the ball in the socket.
The gm shop manual doesn't really explain anything about the upper sliding plastic spacer. My guess is the shifter needs that 1/4" (guessing, i don't have one.) plate to place the ball in the correct height in the socket.

Does anyone know the thickness of the the plastic plate? I assume the thin spacers and the thick plate go on top of the floor and the lower plate goes against the floor without any spacers? It's suppose to float as well? what is this madness?

std 4 speed shifter in the car. I see that corsa and monza are the same. I know 65 3 speed shifter are poor mans quick shift.

Why do some shifters have (2) balls on the shifter and some have (1)?

How does the clarks quick shift work when it only has 1 ball as well?

Do the lower shifter plate sockets make a difference from the stamped steel socket to the cast socket? figure it a cost saving thing?

From what I can gather. The lower small ball moves the shift shaft forward and aft and the upper larger ball is for side to side gear selection. Not sure why they didn't just use 1 ball and a cup like vw's.
Phil used the t5 shifter and just put the cup on the end of the lower shift shaft. Anyone know how close the bolt holes are to line up to the stock ones?



So this is what happens when I can't find the parts I need and the stock design sucks even after you replace everything. Goona bolt to the floor and eliminate the spacers, shims and the outer tube all together. The stock inner tube can be used if needed. I'm replacing mine with a new piece. The holes in the transmission shift shaft are oval'd out, so I'm looking at using the Honda steering u joint.

Darrin
65 Crown
68 Monza convert

Attachments:


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: REM654DPG ()
Date: November 28, 2019 07:09PM

Nice work Darrin and great idea to improve the whole set up. Looking forward to seeing it all complete as I'm sure it will make everything nice and tight.

Regan Metcalf
Portland, OR

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: November 28, 2019 07:34PM

Pictures of VairyV8's shifter.

The bolt pattern was the same.

90 degree socket is from the T5.

My shifter is no loner listed.

This Hurst unit should work.


[www.summitracing.com]

Attachments:


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: November 28, 2019 08:13PM

Here's a picture of my one of a kind roller bearing shifter that I made in 2001... it works SLICK!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



Attachments:
Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: TIBCO ()
Date: November 28, 2019 08:51PM

I just went through this with a friend's 67. While we were installing the shims in the 67, the guy helping me mentioned that his 65 didn't seem to shift right and wondered if it could be the shims. So, later I checked. I could not find any mention of shims in the 65 manual. I did find them mentioned in the 66, and 68 supplements that I have.

So, maybe they didn't use them on the 65 shifter. Different transmission, Possibly a different setup. Does your shift tube have the stabilizer rod on the rear?

Cliff Tibbitts
Lexington, KY
CORSA, CKCE
66 Monza, 140/4sp

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: Vairefast ()
Date: November 28, 2019 08:53PM

Cliff,

Yes it does, but not for long

Darrin
65 Crown
68 Monza convert

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: November 29, 2019 03:30AM

I have a set of plates I salvaged from a Corsa. When I get home, I will post photos and thickness info. They are available as my car has good ones.

Al Lane
Ellabell, GA 31308

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1966 Monza More Door 110 hp, PG
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ hp PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: November 29, 2019 07:18AM

Clarks catalog lists the thickness of the individual shims. You need the white (thick) one that is always used. I have a new one. I'll try to remember to measure it later. They really get eroded after many years. New will give you the right dimension. Are you eliminating those shims?

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: November 29, 2019 07:40AM

There is a specific procedure in the 65-69 GM assembly manuals that requires you to measure the floor thickness (with a micrometer) where the shifter fits through the floor. Then there is a chart provided that tells you what thickness shim to use. Neither of my cars used the shims. I used the 2 piece standard plastic isolators that all of the 65-69's used. I also eliminated the liner/isolator inside the tube. Plastic tube bushings were replaced with the broze bushings.
I also disassembled the shifter itself and replaced the pins and relubricated it. It shifts like butter now.
If you are trying to created a shorter throw/quick shifter then you need to raise the shifter pivot/fulcrum point. Some guys do this using the 65 only 3 speed shifter that has a taller housing.

Lee J

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: TIBCO ()
Date: November 29, 2019 08:46AM

Lee, where in the 65 manual did you find any reference to shims? All I see is the procedure for the 65 3 speed. In the section for the 4-speed, the manual states the procedure is the same as for the 3 speed.

NOW, we all know there are well documented errors in the 65 manual and this may be one of them. Perhaps the manual was published before the car actually was made which may account for the difference.

In any event, Darrin definitely has the later 66 and up style of shifter, so I believe it would require the shims. This could also have been added to the car at some later point. It would be interesting to hear from others who have the 65 4-speed setup and have actually taken theirs apart. This has really got my curiosity up.

Cliff Tibbitts
Lexington, KY
CORSA, CKCE
66 Monza, 140/4sp

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: TIBCO ()
Date: November 29, 2019 08:51AM

Also Darrin, I don't think you should remove the shift stabilizer rod. It works in conjunction with the sliding plates to limit shifter movement. Wait until you hear from someone who has been doing this stuff a lot longer than my meager 14 years.

Cliff Tibbitts
Lexington, KY
CORSA, CKCE
66 Monza, 140/4sp

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: November 29, 2019 10:00AM

The purpose of the late shifter is so that the whole shifter assy. moves front to back with the movement of the drivetrain. This is to help keep the trans from being kick out of gear as you speed up or slow down. For this to work you need the shoulder bolts in the shifter base which clamps the shifter assy. to the outer shift tube. The outer shift tube is attached to the trans crossmember by the stabilizer rod. The purpose of the shims is to allow the shifter to float on the floor with out flopping all over the place. This is the reason that you measure the floor thickness to find the shims that are needed. The early shifters used the single ball and it sits into a little cup on top of the shift rod. This did all of the movement, front to back and side to side and there was a lot of travel in the handle. The late shifter used the double balls. The upper one does the side to side and the lower takes care of the front to back. This later design seemed to reduce the shifter travel or throw. The difference between the cast and stamped ends on the inner shift tube does not matter and was maybe two different sources or cost. The '65 cars used the same shifter as the later ones accept the difference of cast or stamped ends and the trans end stabilizer rods. If your drivetrain mounts are good and tight then it probably will not matter that the shifter is bolted to the floor. If the mounts are loose and the drivetrain moves around then the trans might pop out of gear under harder driving conditions. If you are going to bolt the shifter to the floor you might as well use a single rod like the early cars. GM spent some money to improve the shifter so there must have been a reason for it. That also doesn't mean that there aren't more improvements to be made.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: November 29, 2019 10:18AM

gnvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a specific procedure in the 65-69 GM assembly manuals that requires you to measure the floor thickness (with a micrometer) where the shifter fits through the floor. Then there is a chart provided that tells you what thickness shim to use. Neither of my cars used the shims. I used the 2 piece standard plastic isolators that all of the 65-69's used. I also eliminated the liner/isolator inside the tube. Plastic tube bushings were replaced with the broze bushings.
> I also disassembled the shifter itself and replaced the pins and relubricated it. It shifts like butter now.

Good summary. Shifter rebuilds covered here over the years. The LM 4 speed shifter base pins are an odd size, but you can turn down stock dimension rod to work. Don't force the pins into the shifter housing! The LM two piece shifter ball has a spring inside and an nylon bushing in the lower ball half. The lower ball half tends to wear and I've nickel brazed up a few. Then it works great.

Shimming the shifter via the shop manual is a not always practical in our now old cars as most floors have some rust or bends. With the rear support rod loose you shim until the shifter base and tube moves forward and back with some pressure, but has little or no side to side tipping movement. If the floor is really warped, or you can't find a shim to work, you can install stop nuts on the shifter base studs and tighten to take out the play, but allow forward and back movement. Then hook up and adjust the rear support rod for the optimal shifter position. Clark's sells some of the shifter base shims.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: Vairefast ()
Date: November 29, 2019 12:17PM

Thanks for all the input and information. Really hard to find good info on the net, except for here of course. I'll be working on this for a day or 2 try to find out what the dealo is with having to make it float. I'm not a fan of it atm. Technicality I made it so the plastic plates would work, but i would need to secure the outer stabilizer rod to the new billet housing.

I was hoping to get every ounce of play out of the shifter and all the components attached to it. Hopefully it wont need a quick shifter to be fun to drive.

For now I plan on just bolting her up and seeing what happens, can't be worse then what I have now. lol. Old shifter bolted to the floor with no spacer or shims,bad rod bushings and the hole in the trans shift shaft wallowed out. I may tackle a quick shift adapter or possibly take two old shifters and make one with a different pivot point.

Darrin
65 Crown
68 Monza convert

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: November 29, 2019 12:53PM

Darrin - part of the "play" is also in the shifter forks control mechanism in the transmission. The 66 and later transmissions are different vs. the 65.

If your going racing a shorter throw lever is nice. There was a (may still be sold) short shift "kit" from Clarks. A spacer with longer studs between the floor and shifter and an extension put on the ball of the shift lever. Some have problems with this setup, especially if the shift tube bushings, or rear coupler are worn.

For street I find the stock setup to be fine. Design improvements could be made, but most seem to get by with the stock unit after rebuilding it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: November 29, 2019 01:27PM

Clark's had copied the shim selection info from the Assembly manuals. Here it is on their current site [www.corvair.com]

Lee J

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: Vairefast ()
Date: November 30, 2019 06:30PM

Anyone had to time to measure the main plastic spacer? I see the clarks site, but still not sure if the main slider has different thickness's as well? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Made a few spacers last night and bolted it up on the bench seems to be very smooth. Hope it works out.

Figure I'll make a bolt in one and a sliding one to cover my butt.

Darrin
65 Crown
68 Monza convert

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: Vairefast ()
Date: December 03, 2019 08:32PM

Small update:

Ordered the 01 honda steering joint from ebay. 17.00 shipped. It is the correct size for each end. Ty ccf for the info on that. If you haven't seen one, you still won't, I left it at work. It is a pinch bolt style with splines. For a shifter I'm sure it will be more then strong enough to stay in place without the splines.

I plan on drilling a hole on both sides of the honda joint so I can set screw to the transmission shaft. I have access to a welder so I will clamp and weld the other end of the honda joint to the old coupler rod cut off from the coupler.

I found 3/4 SS polished tubing at IMS metals for about $10.00 for 5ft. (Tube will fit the stock coupler and outer tube as well, if you don't feel like cleaning yours.) I will get a 1" o.d. pcs of the same tubing for the outside tube so I can try to make it "float" still.

Anyone get a chance to measure the plastic plate that can post up some #'s on the thickness?

Darrin
65 Crown
68 Monza convert

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Shifter
Posted by: Vairefast ()
Date: December 13, 2019 02:14AM

Anyone have time to measure those plastic spacers? I plan on trying to install this thing this weekend. I have it setup to float atm. I'll keep ya posted on the outcome.

Darrin
65 Crown
68 Monza convert

Options: ReplyQuote


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.