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Motor Oil
Posted by: junkyardog ()
Date: November 06, 2019 12:31PM

I was reading Bob the Oil Guy's research. I was wondering what oil people use for their Corvair. I have the AMsoil Signature Series 10-30 standing by for the next oil change. There is an Amsoil "Z_Rod " oil with higher zinc. I think Bob was saying zinc is not as important as they used to think but other things are like shear stability? Does anyone know about the difference? I do know the Z-Rod ranked lower in the research he has done.

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: November 06, 2019 01:31PM

Although I don't see the actual data like they used to post, the Z Rod is much more appropriate. The Signature series would be for modern cars.

Check the link in my signature for more details if you want them

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
Selection of the right transmission oil for the corvair
How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: Willt65 ()
Date: November 06, 2019 01:44PM

Hey Richard,
If you don't mind me asking, what do you think about Mobil 1, 0w40 European Blend? From what I could see it looked like it would work well in our cars.


Will Teeter
Flintstone, MD
65 Corsa project
66 Monza parts car
49 Chevy 5 window project
08 Chevy 2500
13 Honda Odyssey
07 Honda 919
04 Honda Rancher
96 Honda XR400R

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: mtmouse ()
Date: November 06, 2019 02:12PM

Oh Boy, an Oil thread!!!smileys with beer
joe

Joe in South Ga
1965 Corsa 2 dr Coupe Turbo 4sp because I love the looks
18ft Chaparral 180 Sport because I live on a lake, seemed like the thing to do
Chevy Pickup to tow boat and tote things
Chevy Cavalier because they drive like a go-cart

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: November 06, 2019 02:46PM

I'll pull up a chair, and wait for all the "experts" to duke it out......

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woodstock CT... Located on the Connecticut / Massachusetts border, approximately 6 miles from the center of Southbridge MA. About 45 minutes from Hartford CT. 1 1/2 hours West of Boston MA. Woodstock CT to Los Angeles CA 2,937.1 miles. 1 Mile as the crow flies to Big Bird's nest.

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: November 06, 2019 04:38PM

15w50 Mobil one is in the Race Car, The Spyder, The V8 Racer. Havent twisted off the Dist gear yet or broke the dry sump belt. Don't leak oil either smiling smiley Oh yea its 23 bucks for a 5 quart Jug at Wall Mart. I also have used Brad Penn with good results but its just too easy to pick up the Mobil one when I go grocery shopping with the wife. ( I sneek it into the Grocery Money ) !! Mike

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: November 06, 2019 05:53PM

mtmouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh Boy, an Oil thread!!!smileys with beer
> joe

Yeah that's what I was thinking. That said a search of old threads brings up too much contradictory information.

Richard W. has some good advice. Note that it helps to stipulate your needs: engine break-in, racing, daily driver with short distances, or occasional weekend cruiser with a good warm up drive.

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: November 06, 2019 06:03PM

junkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll pull up a chair, and wait for all the "experts" to duke it out......


Not too much "Duking it out" goes on around here, regarding oil.
Most of us are smart enough to acknowledge that Richard IS the expert in ALL things oil.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, '62 Monza Wagon, '63 Spyder, '65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dualy, approaching 400K
17'Terry

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: November 06, 2019 07:16PM

I've got close to 9000 miles on my Spyder running a cam with .460" lift running 0w-40 Mobil 1 European formula. If there was a problem with it I would have ruined it already! 540rat's oil ranking list is a much better way to figure out what oil should be run than trying to "decide" which oil is best based on what the ingredients are!! if it was that simple, this would have been taken care of a long time ago! 540rat's list shows great correlation to actual user experiences- the higher the pressure rating for the oil, the longer the life for the cam and lifters.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: Richard ()
Date: November 06, 2019 08:01PM

I am anxiously awaiting richard 1's answer to the "0w-40 Mobil 1 European formula"

I have a 6.4 Ram and Dodge specifies "0w-40 Pennzoil Ultra platinum", MS-12633 or equivalent.

Pennzoil also has a 0w-40 Platinum Euro. Dodge says not to use the Euro in the 6.4 Hemi.

Hoping hear Richard's comments about this. These oils are the ones you see Pennzoil advertising as being made from Natural Gas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2019 08:02PM by Richard.

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: mikeycee ()
Date: November 06, 2019 08:49PM

VR1Shade's put this into my recent engine rebuild. Valvoline racing oil 20w/50W with zinc. You get it at Menards building centers. It's what John Menard uses in his race cars. Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2019 08:52PM by mikeycee.

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: mikeycee ()
Date: November 06, 2019 08:53PM

[www.menards.com]






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2019 10:45PM by MattNall.

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: November 07, 2019 04:59AM

Mobil 1, 0w40 European Blend looks like a good option for those who want something more viscous in hot weather, while pumping well in the cold. With 1000 ppm of phosphorous,

Two interesting somewhat negative points are the 1.34 sulfated ash, which could form more engine deposits, and the 3.6 cp HTHS, which is fine, but exactly the same as the Amsoil product mentioned at the beginning of this thread.

Other comments
Quote
VR1Shade's put this into my recent engine rebuild. Valvoline racing oil 20w/50W with zinc.

Sorry to burst a bubble, but putting an oil more viscous than recommended by the factory in a newly rebuilt engine means one of two things:
-Either the engine is not built to original specs
-The person does not understand oil flow vs tolerance.
Either way, I've seen too many engines destroyed to not comment on that practice.I usually see it when someone is covering up for not properly rebuilding.

Quote
540rat

There is a lot of interesting information in that study, and I respect the time put into it, but it does not consider what happens once the oil has begun to degrade, nor, as I remember, the temperatures at the sliding points.I may have mentioned other things in previous posts about it.

Of note is that almost any 10W-30 on the shelves today is better than those of the 60's. It's matter of degree how much you want to protect your engine. The ones that aren't better are the single grades and the ones you find at convenience stores and Dollar stores.(in general).

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
Selection of the right transmission oil for the corvair
How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: November 07, 2019 05:23AM

I used to use VR1 20/50 but switched to VR1 10/30. When that got hard to find and $6 a quart I switched to Rotella T4 10/30. It's a little bit harder to find Rotella 10/30, 15/40 is everywhere.
My main consideration is to use an oil that the customer can find easily when changing their own oil. I put an empty jug in the car for their reference.
I will not use a zero anything but that's just me.
I can't say I ever had trouble with 20/50 but reading Richard's paper on the subject changed my mind, especially regarding crankshaft bearing wear during start-up. I was a 20/50 guy with Harleys but they're a different kind of a bearing.
Oil formulations change and if Rotella falls out of favor I'd sure like to know about it. Of comfort to me when considering this "diesel oil" is that it doesn't have the excess detergent like it used to and I hope this belief is correct.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: mtmouse ()
Date: November 07, 2019 06:13AM

I have been on several motorcycle forums, a couple of boat forums and now a Corvair forum. Everyone of them has long discussions about oil. Every one of them has their own expert on oil. What I have gathered from all these is just use a good quality oil in the manufactures specs. Modern oils are so far superior to what GM called for in the 60's you can't go wrong unless you buy dirt cheap lawn mower oil at the dollar store.
Personally, I use Mobile 1 10w30 in my car and truck and will probably use it in the vair. I use Mercruiser 15w40 (dead dinos) oil in my boat.While half the people on the boat forum will tell you that Mercruiser oil will destroy your engine (unless you use the orange Fram oil filter of death which will explode before the oil has a chance to kill your engine).winking smiley P.S. I use the Fram orange filter on my boat anyway, I've never seen an oil filter explode so I'm still waiting. Sarcasm off.
In short, everyone has oil and filter opinions based on their experiences and beliefs. I follow the church of change it often.
Now back to our regularly scheduled entertainment.
Joe

Joe in South Ga
1965 Corsa 2 dr Coupe Turbo 4sp because I love the looks
18ft Chaparral 180 Sport because I live on a lake, seemed like the thing to do
Chevy Pickup to tow boat and tote things
Chevy Cavalier because they drive like a go-cart

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: November 07, 2019 06:15AM

mikeycee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VR1Shade's put this into my recent engine rebuild. Valvoline racing oil 20w/50W with zinc. You get it at Menards building centers. It's what John Menard uses in his race cars. Mike

2X, good stuff, use in all my classics that are warm weather only cars.

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: November 07, 2019 07:08AM

In my view race cars and street cars are different animals. Sacrificing some cold start-up flow for high temperature viscosity is a trade off. My race car gets hot because the only use it sees is beating the hell out of it. It gets taken apart a lot too. It's also built a little looser but probably not in the crankshaft bearing department. It's also got more valve spring pressure to control a lot of lift. Revs to 7000 in a pinch.

I use 20/50 in my racecar but not on the street.

Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: mtmouse ()
Date: November 07, 2019 07:47AM

Nope, don't think you are wrong at all. Quite agree. I used 20w50 in my air cooled motorcycles in the summer. Give up a minute of lower flow on start up so the rest of the time the oil was better suited to the temps. Some of the new air/oil cooled bikes coming out now call for 20w60.
Higher temps and larger clearances handle heavier oil.
Bye the way, what lube do you use in your dif/gearbox when racing? I used Shockproof Heavy in my racing bike transmissions and gearboxes. Smoothed out the gearboxes a lot and they ran 20 degs cooler. You can stick a screwdriver tip in this and hang the screwdriver point down, come back the next day and it is still on the screwdriver. Good stuff for diff's. Not sure about Corvairs since they share diff and trans and they have syncros. [www.redlineoil.com]
Joe
JimBrandberg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my view race cars and street cars are different animals. Sacrificing some cold start-up flow for high temperature viscosity is a trade off. My race car gets hot because the only use it sees is beating the hell out of it. It gets taken apart a lot too. It's also built a little looser but probably not in the crankshaft bearing department. It's also got more valve spring pressure to control a lot of lift. Revs to 7000 in a pinch.
>
> I use 20/50 in my racecar but not on the street.
>
> Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: November 07, 2019 09:17AM

For racing, 5W-50 is much better than 20W-50, both on startup and at higher temps. At about 110ºC, the 5W-50 is more viscous than the 20W-50.

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
Selection of the right transmission oil for the corvair
How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim

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Re: Motor Oil
Posted by: 4speedoverdrive ()
Date: November 07, 2019 05:24PM

I have a comment and a question.

The comment: I've been driving for a lot of year and have had multiple cars and in all that time I have never had an engine fail. I think if you use any of the quality oils and change them at regular intervals most engines will serve you well.

The question: following comments and recommendations on this forum, that I need an oil with a certain amount of Zinc for the Corvair. I think the most recommended is the Rotella T? 10W-30. The problem with that is that Rotella 10W-30 is not all that easy to find. Lots of 15W-40 around but no 10W-30. In fact, I was at the local Farm store looking for the correct Rotella and could not find the correct viscosity, but they had Royal Purple HMX 10W-30. The Royal Purple web site has the following comments on HMX "Royal Purple® HMX® is specifically formulated with robust zinc / phosphorus anti-wear additives and Royal Purple’s proprietary additive technology Synerlec® to minimize wear and restore lost engine performance." So the question: does anyone have any experience with Royal Purple HMX and what is the Zinc/Phosphorus levels of this oil? and does it meet the requirements of the Corvair engine?

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