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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: October 25, 2019 07:18PM

F changing oil cooler seals means fan shroud comes off. Then I would do the top cover gaskets and the vent tube o-ring also.

Al Lane
Ellabell, GA 31308

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1966 Monza More Door 110 hp, PG
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ hp PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 25, 2019 07:21PM

? No need to take the top shroud off.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 25, 2019 07:23PM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ? No need to take the top shroud off.

2nd

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: October 25, 2019 08:10PM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ? No need to take the top shroud off.


No kidding!
Talk about doing things the hard way.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, '62 Monza Wagon, '63 Spyder, '65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dualy, approaching 400K
17'Terry

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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: mtmouse ()
Date: October 25, 2019 08:15PM

Top shroud (all shrouds) will come off to ensure no air blockage from nesting critters, wasps, etc. It has been sitting and I don't want localized hot spots from simple debris that I should have cleaned out.

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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: October 25, 2019 08:33PM

Highly suggested after 40 years of sitting!
Mice love Corvair engines.
Many threads mentioning rodent houses in shrouds.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, '62 Monza Wagon, '63 Spyder, '65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dualy, approaching 400K
17'Terry

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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: October 26, 2019 01:51AM

That is what I would do too. Too. Uch risk in not cleaning out from under it.
You can do the head deflashing at the same time.

Here is a photo of my repaired 110 engine when I pulled the fan shroud.

Al Lane
Ellabell, GA 31308

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1966 Monza More Door 110 hp, PG
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ hp PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 26, 2019 05:19AM

While I 100% agree its a great idea to get a look in there, I would use an endoscope first. They cheap and you can see a lot. REMEMBER, this is a turbo. Its is all but impossible to pull the top shroud without pulling the turbo. That means separating the inlet pipe from the crossover without damaging one or both. $$$$ I managed to do it once with the turbo attached, but trying to get it back in without bending things or destroying the sheet meta sealing gaskets is not easy. If the top cover gasket is leaking or the fan bearing is loud, then then that's a different story. My 2 cents

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: mtmouse ()
Date: October 26, 2019 05:37AM

Thanks for the info. I assume you are talking about the exhaust crossover and turbo connection. Can the power package (engine & transaxle) be removed with the turbo in place. If so that will make it much easier to remove the exhaust crossover without destroying it.
Joe
jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While I 100% agree its a great idea to get a look in there, I would use an endoscope first. They cheap and you can see a lot. REMEMBER, this is a turbo. Its is all but impossible to pull the top shroud without pulling the turbo. That means separating the inlet pipe from the crossover without damaging one or both. $$$$ I managed to do it once with the turbo attached, but trying to get it back in without bending things or destroying the sheet meta sealing gaskets is not easy. If the top cover gasket is leaking or the fan bearing is loud, then then that's a different story. My 2 cents

Joe in South Ga
1965 Corsa 2 dr Coupe Turbo 4sp because I love the looks
18ft Chaparral 180 Sport because I live on a lake, seemed like the thing to do
Chevy Pickup to tow boat and tote things
Chevy Cavalier because they drive like a go-cart

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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 26, 2019 06:03AM

The exhaust crossover is on the bottom. The in and out for the turbo exhaust goes through the side shroud.
No need to remove the crossover.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: October 26, 2019 07:51AM

This thread has built quickly. I'm not so sure some of your questions have been answered. I'm sorry if they have and I'm being redundant. I read through quickly.

We often don't untorque and retorque the whole head when doing just pushrod tubes because the top studs and nuts are exposed to the elements and hard to loosen sometimes without the stud coming out of the crankcase. The stud coming out is not a big deal if no aluminum comes with it. It's just sort of a pandora's box to mess with that top row if you don't have to. You don't want to loosen the whole bottom row of studs at the same time or the head can tip a little, ruining the head gaskets. If we just loosen the bottom 2 one cylinder at a time and retorque to 30 before moving to the next cylinder it works good usually. I like to turn the engine to where it fires as reference by the distributor rotor so I can do the lifter adjustment with both valves closed.

The hard part of removing the top shroud on a turbo engine as far as I'm concerned is getting the turbo inlet pipe separated from the crossover pipe. This has to be accomplished in order to remove the turbo stand.

You can pull the whole powertrain with the turbo still attached as long as you can jack the car up high enough to roll it out. The exhaust crossover needs to be removed before separating the engine from the differential/transmission, the pipe fits up into a recession on the bottom of the differential. This might be better accomplished with the engine in the chassis, maybe not.

You can do a lot including removing the heads with the engine in the chassis, although you have to lower it a little by removing the rear mount. Sometimes the project expands a lot beyond original intentions when the powertrain is removed, the old "as long as I'm in there" adage.

A Compression Test and a Leakdown Test won't necessarily expose valve guide issues but might help you decide what other work you may need. Corvair engines sort of "come in" sometimes after they run for a while so tests done on an engine that's been sitting for a long time may not be accurate.

I don't have one of those newfangled camera snakes but it sounds like a good way to look for mose stuffing without removing the top shroud.

One way to go is to refresh the carburetor and run the engine with gas from a can. The gas tank is probably a chamber of horrors. I'd probably try to oil it up and tread lightly instead of just firing it straight off.

Corvair engines get expensive to rebuild real fast once you're buying pistons, boring cylinders and the rest.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 26, 2019 08:01AM

JimBrandberg Wrote:

>
> One way to go is to refresh the carburetor and run the engine with gas from a can. The gas tank is probably a chamber of horrors. I'd probably try to oil it up and tread lightly instead of just firing it straight off.

2nd, highly recommend. that's what I did after mine sat for several years. You can use the fuel pump, or strap a can to the car and use gravity feed. I even drove mine in the neighborhood that way.
>

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: mtmouse ()
Date: October 26, 2019 12:20PM

Jim, thank you for the guidance. It has always been my plan to remove the power package to ensure a reliable driver. Just as plans to replace all brake components and rubber items. After sitting this many years I would expect to replace at minimum the throwout bearing and inspect the clutch assembly, universal joints, wheel bearings and seals, replace fuel tank, straps and hoses, remove and inspect/repair the front suspension assembly, etc. I plan this to be a multiyear project. I do not want to rush to get it running and then ruin parts and get towed home. I have tried cleaning and restoring fuel tanks and systems, best to just replace them. I have tried to remove fasteners corroded into an alloy casting while still in a vehicle only to learn it really is much easier to work on when you can get to it.
This will take a couple of years but will be safe, reliable and worth having when I'm done.
So if I have enough room to lift the body high enough I can remove the power package with the carb and turbo in place?
Thanks for helping clear up a few things.
Joe

Joe in South Ga
1965 Corsa 2 dr Coupe Turbo 4sp because I love the looks
18ft Chaparral 180 Sport because I live on a lake, seemed like the thing to do
Chevy Pickup to tow boat and tote things
Chevy Cavalier because they drive like a go-cart

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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 26, 2019 12:22PM

That's the way to do it.... If you disconnect the front suspension and rear you are only lifting 1300 lb max.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: October 26, 2019 06:18PM

Even though it is possible to drop the engine only in a late model, I would drop the drivetrain as an assembly and then take it apart.

Yes, drivetrain on a turbo can be removed as a complete assembly. Just have to have body up in the air quite a bit.

Lots of jack options to lower drivetrain. I am now partial to the Harbor Freight hydraulic table, but I used a typical floor jack and a beefy really old moving dolly for many many engine/drivetrain removals over the years, including turbos.
Other people use the Harbor Freight ATV jack, and Dave Motohead is taking orders for jack adapters to mount the floor jack directly to the engine for safety.

I use Cunifer (NiCopp, etc) for brake and fuel lines as I do not want to do it again, and I live in the east. Easy to bend and flare.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 27, 2019 06:29AM

I am not sure of your plan for starting the engine. From I am reading you want to start taking things apart before a test run, maybe I got it wrong. My experience from ran when parked is most often BS. The was towed pushed or limped into its resting place because it did NOT run or didn't run well enough to drive. If you start pulling seals, sheet metal, clutches, turbos and TOs you still will not know what you have. If the engine turns over easily and the car rolls easily, change the oil and filter then start it up VIA a gas can. Get it warmed up, do some very short, low speed test drives at a safe location. The park brake can stop you if test it and do not go fast at all. Nothing will be hurt that you are not already planing on changing or inspecting anyway. Then you know exactly what you are dealing with and start your multi year plan of repair from that point. AS always with this group, your car your choice.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: mtmouse ()
Date: October 27, 2019 07:27AM

J.O. Agreed, my car my choice. That said why reinvent the wheel? Each of you owners and mechanics does things their way. I want to hear them all and think things through before I start. I have been a mechanic all my life and one thing is certain, no matter how good you are there is always someone better. It has been my experience with engines that if it is complete it can be made to run with time and dollars. If it turns over by hand with some compression then it will run. If this were an iron block water cooled engine I would give her fresh gas and see what I got so to speak. A corvair being a mix of alloy and iron and air cooled I can believe a rush to run it could easily damage some expensive parts. My plan is to pull the power pack, clean out the cooling areas and do a bench test run before tearing into it. I understand the run it before tearing it apart thing and I do understand why corvair engines "come back" after running a bit. Big tolerances in air cooled, running them always helps. Chances are I will not even need to pull heads since I have recently found out I can replace pushrod tube seals without removing the heads. I do not want to open the engine further than gaskets and seals if I don't really have to.
I do know why the car ended up where it is. Divorce. She took it and moved it to mom's house where it has been since. I guess it's better to let it sit than to let the ex have it.

Joe in South Ga
1965 Corsa 2 dr Coupe Turbo 4sp because I love the looks
18ft Chaparral 180 Sport because I live on a lake, seemed like the thing to do
Chevy Pickup to tow boat and tote things
Chevy Cavalier because they drive like a go-cart

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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 27, 2019 08:00AM

You'll soon find out Vairs are just GM engines with no water... Robust

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: October 27, 2019 09:03AM

Yes, and you can run a Corvair engine for 5 minutes without air flow, from a COLD start. So test running a mouse nest clogged engine is not a problem, but, if it runs good there is a tendency to keep it running, just another minute, so, right, don't do it.grinning smiley

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: New Owner Question
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 27, 2019 11:38AM

Come on Frank... no load.. they run for hours! lower case larry and the boyZ from Chicago proved that decades ago!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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