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Corvair Center Forum :
Corvair Center Phorum
One reason for early clutch cable failure
Attachments:
Corvair Center
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
rlp11
()
Date: October 11, 2019 10:51AM
Clutch Cable Failure Reason 1. And a shameless plug for my cable pulleys.
I may have found a reason that we are having so many clutch cable failures. It is the pulley design.
Pulleys are designed so the grove is the same diameter and the cable. 1/8 inch cable should use a pulley that has a 1/8 inch grove. Closer to a perfect fit the longer the cable life.
Picture one shows an OEM plastic pulley ,on the left, and a Repo plastic pulley on the right. See the difference? Repo pulley is flat on the bottom and the OEM is less flat. Grove is still too wide for 1/8 inch cable.
Picture two shows what the cable looks like in the plastic pulley. Real sloppy fit. This will let the cable flatten out when pressure is applied to the cable over the pulley. Using a 1500 pound pressure plate there is over 340 pound of pressure on the cable. This flatting causes early failures due to excess ware fatigue.
Picture three show the cable in one of my designed pulleys. I machine the grove to be the same size as the cable. Very hard to get a good picture due to all the shiny metal.
Comments welcome.
Roger Parent
El Cajon, CA
1964 Monza Driver
1964 Monza Project
I may have found a reason that we are having so many clutch cable failures. It is the pulley design.
Pulleys are designed so the grove is the same diameter and the cable. 1/8 inch cable should use a pulley that has a 1/8 inch grove. Closer to a perfect fit the longer the cable life.
Picture one shows an OEM plastic pulley ,on the left, and a Repo plastic pulley on the right. See the difference? Repo pulley is flat on the bottom and the OEM is less flat. Grove is still too wide for 1/8 inch cable.
Picture two shows what the cable looks like in the plastic pulley. Real sloppy fit. This will let the cable flatten out when pressure is applied to the cable over the pulley. Using a 1500 pound pressure plate there is over 340 pound of pressure on the cable. This flatting causes early failures due to excess ware fatigue.
Picture three show the cable in one of my designed pulleys. I machine the grove to be the same size as the cable. Very hard to get a good picture due to all the shiny metal.
Comments welcome.
Roger Parent
El Cajon, CA
1964 Monza Driver
1964 Monza Project
Attachments:
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
Mel
()
Date: October 11, 2019 11:10AM
Chinese never can seem to make repro crap correctly 
Orangeville, Ontario. CANADA
Orangeville, Ontario. CANADARe: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
larry202br
()
Date: October 11, 2019 11:27AM
It's interesting that you can actually see what appears to be a wear mark in the groove of that aftermarket pulley.
1961 rampside with a 65 / 67 110 engine, car four speed.
1965 convertible
1966 Custom two door/four door 180 Turbo.
KC0SKX
Olathe, ks
HACOA
1961 rampside with a 65 / 67 110 engine, car four speed.
1965 convertible
1966 Custom two door/four door 180 Turbo.
KC0SKX
Olathe, ks
HACOA
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
rlp11
()
Date: October 11, 2019 11:29AM
Both OEM and the after market pulley are new, never been installed. Black mark is manufacturing error.
Roger Parent
El Cajon, CA
1964 Monza Driver
1964 Monza Project
Roger Parent
El Cajon, CA
1964 Monza Driver
1964 Monza Project
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
davemotohead
()
Date: October 11, 2019 11:52AM
So a combination of the bad repop pulley and the bad (Less strand) cable = early cable failure. Funny, I have always run NOS pulleys and cables and have never had one break! Good detective work Roger!
1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)
-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca
1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)
-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
rlp11
()
Date: October 11, 2019 01:23PM
Dave
I have always run NOS pulleys and cables till I started to make the pulleys and cables. Never broke a cable in 25 years.
Roger Parent
El Cajon, CA
1964 Monza Driver
1964 Monza Project
I have always run NOS pulleys and cables till I started to make the pulleys and cables. Never broke a cable in 25 years.
Roger Parent
El Cajon, CA
1964 Monza Driver
1964 Monza Project
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
MonzaDave
()
Date: October 11, 2019 03:28PM
Roger, what is availability and price on your cables and pulleys?
Dave Keillor
Rochester, MN
Dave Keillor
Rochester, MN
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
48kb1panel
()
Date: October 11, 2019 07:55PM
I'd like to know about availability also
My name is Mike Worrell living in southern Iowa my vairs are a 64 2dr convertible monza 900 with 110 motor 4 speed light yellow with blk interior. Then a few months ago I got a 65 2 Dr convertible monza 900 with 110 motor 4 speed
Also light yellow with blk interior. Not sure what gear ratio as of now I'll have a look and up date. I really like them both but really liking the 65. They really made a lot of changes in a 1 year difference ????
My name is Mike Worrell living in southern Iowa my vairs are a 64 2dr convertible monza 900 with 110 motor 4 speed light yellow with blk interior. Then a few months ago I got a 65 2 Dr convertible monza 900 with 110 motor 4 speed
Also light yellow with blk interior. Not sure what gear ratio as of now I'll have a look and up date. I really like them both but really liking the 65. They really made a lot of changes in a 1 year difference ????
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
66vairman
()
Date: October 11, 2019 08:01PM
Roger - Two questions.
1. Does the aluminum pulley Clark's sells have the proper groove shape?
2. If you offer a cable warranty does it require using your pulley?
Regards.
1. Does the aluminum pulley Clark's sells have the proper groove shape?
2. If you offer a cable warranty does it require using your pulley?
Regards.
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
rlp11
()
Date: October 11, 2019 11:13PM
Monzadave:
Pulleys will be available after Nov 1st. I am stocking up for the TOSS in two weeks.
60-64 Clutch pulleys are $25 each or $70 for a set of three. The 65-69 clutch pulley is $19.50.
66vairman:
Just went out an compaired them. The Alum pulley that Clark's sells has the same shaped grove as the OEM plastic ones.
Roger Parent
El Cajon, CA
1964 Monza Driver
1964 Monza Project
Pulleys will be available after Nov 1st. I am stocking up for the TOSS in two weeks.
60-64 Clutch pulleys are $25 each or $70 for a set of three. The 65-69 clutch pulley is $19.50.
66vairman:
Just went out an compaired them. The Alum pulley that Clark's sells has the same shaped grove as the OEM plastic ones.
Roger Parent
El Cajon, CA
1964 Monza Driver
1964 Monza Project
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
F125AXer
()
Date: October 12, 2019 06:28PM
The only cable failure I recall from many years back is one that broke right at the front end, where the ball was.
I attributed it to a lack of pivoting in the fork of the clutch pedal lever. I noted that the arm swings in a shallow arc, effectively bending the cable at the ball every time the clutch pedal was used. Polished the ball, and the pocket it rode in, and greased both. No further problems.
Perhaps new cables have a better attachment system. It is on the list of improvements I'd like to make when I can finally retrieve and drive my car again.
Note: This information is based on ancient history. My Corsa has been in storage for over two decades. But I am getting so dang old that if I don't retrieve it and make it run again soon, it'll never happen. Reading the phorum is motivation for me.
Alan Sheidler
Michigan
'66 Corsa 140 (mothballed)
I attributed it to a lack of pivoting in the fork of the clutch pedal lever. I noted that the arm swings in a shallow arc, effectively bending the cable at the ball every time the clutch pedal was used. Polished the ball, and the pocket it rode in, and greased both. No further problems.
Perhaps new cables have a better attachment system. It is on the list of improvements I'd like to make when I can finally retrieve and drive my car again.
Note: This information is based on ancient history. My Corsa has been in storage for over two decades. But I am getting so dang old that if I don't retrieve it and make it run again soon, it'll never happen. Reading the phorum is motivation for me.
Alan Sheidler
Michigan
'66 Corsa 140 (mothballed)
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
American Mel
()
Date: October 12, 2019 07:27PM
As Alan stated, the only cable failure I have experienced so far, has been at the very end, not near the pulleys.
I made a "Temporary Fix" to get me home, and it is still in place approx. 7(?) years later.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, '62 Monza Wagon, '63 Spyder, '65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dualy, approaching 400K
17'Terry
I made a "Temporary Fix" to get me home, and it is still in place approx. 7(?) years later.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, '62 Monza Wagon, '63 Spyder, '65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dualy, approaching 400K
17'Terry
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
MattNall
()
Date: October 12, 2019 07:35PM
That's an OEM cable....
How soon some forget...
Replica cables have been failing the cable... under the floor.... most times barely a year for a daily driven car..
MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo
How soon some forget...
Replica cables have been failing the cable... under the floor.... most times barely a year for a daily driven car..
MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
momach
()
Date: October 12, 2019 07:48PM
The new design pulley is aluminum? And the stranded cable is stainless? Do these ever get wet?
If so, there could be some concern for electrode potential from dissimilar metals.
On the Wet side of Washington State
one too many cars,(maybe)
multiple Corvairs.
1962 Buick Skylark
1967 Datsun 2000 roadster
If so, there could be some concern for electrode potential from dissimilar metals.
On the Wet side of Washington State
one too many cars,(maybe)
multiple Corvairs.
1962 Buick Skylark
1967 Datsun 2000 roadster
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
joelsplace
()
Date: October 12, 2019 07:51PM
Only if you drive your Corvair in a lake. I guess the bottom EM pulley might get wet when driving down the creek like the GM ad shows. Maybe that is why the pulleys are plastic.
Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...
Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
caroseiii
()
Date: October 12, 2019 08:06PM
The problem I have seen the most is that the steel bushing rusts to the bolt on the lower pulley. The pulley itself then fails to pivot and the cable just rubs it away as the cable is actuated.
Crawford Rose
Crawford Rose
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
American Mel
()
Date: October 12, 2019 08:08PM
caroseiii Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem I have seen the most is that the steel bushing rusts to the bolt on the lower pulley. The pulley itself then fails to pivot and the cable just rubs it away as the cable is actuated.
>
> Crawford Rose
Just did a drivetrain conversion this summer, and I could have sworn that the bushing was aluminum.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, '62 Monza Wagon, '63 Spyder, '65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dualy, approaching 400K
17'Terry
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem I have seen the most is that the steel bushing rusts to the bolt on the lower pulley. The pulley itself then fails to pivot and the cable just rubs it away as the cable is actuated.
>
> Crawford Rose
Just did a drivetrain conversion this summer, and I could have sworn that the bushing was aluminum.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, '62 Monza Wagon, '63 Spyder, '65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dualy, approaching 400K
17'Terry
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
caroseiii
()
Date: October 13, 2019 07:19PM
Ha-ha! An aluminum bushing? Yours was just super nice. The bolts will rust/corrode into aluminum as well. This is why the aluminum pulleys are an improvement in strength but may have dissimilar metal issues if the bolt is not lubed. the original 1960 steel brake cable pulleys used a nylon bushing between the pulley and the bolt. I don't recall the clutch cable using a metal pulley in the 1960s I had.
Crawford
Crawford
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
Cheepfk
()
Date: October 14, 2019 05:28PM
I don't get it.
Both my 49,000 mile 1962 4-speed and my 88,000 mile 1965 Corsa have the original 55+ year old cables and pulleys and I have no problems.
Like Motohead states NOS replacements work well too.
I have two back-up NOS cables for each of my cars should I ever need them but so far so good.
It seems to me the problem with breaking cables may lie elsewhere especially considering so many Corvairs are poorly maintained and serviced on a low budget.
Both my 49,000 mile 1962 4-speed and my 88,000 mile 1965 Corsa have the original 55+ year old cables and pulleys and I have no problems.
Like Motohead states NOS replacements work well too.
I have two back-up NOS cables for each of my cars should I ever need them but so far so good.
It seems to me the problem with breaking cables may lie elsewhere especially considering so many Corvairs are poorly maintained and serviced on a low budget.
Re: One reason for early clutch cable failure
One reason for early clutch cable failure Posted by:
MattNall
()
Date: October 14, 2019 06:14PM
Many cars today have 300k 400 k on them...
And once again... not the NOS cables.... it's the replacements...they have too few strands....
MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo
And once again... not the NOS cables.... it's the replacements...they have too few strands....
MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo
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