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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 10, 2019 09:16PM

Must've been a "West Coast thing"

Santa Barbara in the 50's

Redlands / Big Bear Lake / San Diego in the 60's

Remember.. SD COUNTY had 600,000 in the 60's 3.4 MILLION today

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: The Californian ()
Date: October 10, 2019 09:17PM

'All Corvair cars came with 13" wheels'

Thanks.

'you are in a hard corner and let off the gas it will oversteer'

Okay.Most cars something happens when you let off the gas.

'The discussion topic is camber compensators'

We are kind of up a creek without one to look at or a chance to buy one and try

it out.

I'm up for a new topic.

THE CALIFORNIANS

BIG HORSEPOWER HIGH SPEED ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE!

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: sweet66monza ()
Date: October 10, 2019 09:17PM

American Mel Wrote:

>
> ? eye popping smiley ? confused smiley ? eye rolling smiley ? eye popping smiley ?
> Where in the world did you live ? ? ?
> My town had ALL paved roads and streets, and every town we visited did too!
> Alleys behind our houses were dirt/gravel, but ALL our streets were paved.

The streets in the neighborhood i grew up in were dirt until i was in the 2nd grade. Id guess 2002ish. Crazy to think of dirt streets IN TOWN that late! Glad it got paved (barely) before my car addiction started!

Cody Hurley
North Idaho (Post Falls)
66 Monza convertible 140/PG, loaded with factory options
66 Corsa turbo coupe, 3rd owner fully documented [corvaircenter.com]
65 Monza coupe daily driver 110/4
Also 2 Ford f350 IDI diesels, six Jeep FC 170s, 1966 Jeep CJ5A, 03 neon, 5 Rokon Trailbreakers, Honda xr350s, and thousands of parts


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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 10, 2019 09:22PM

The street I live on was dirt until about 2 years ago.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 10, 2019 09:35PM

The Californian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> We are kind of up a creek without one to look at or a chance to buy one and try
> it out.
=========================================================================


The Toss atthe end of the month! Someone will give you a demo ride! ggg

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: The Californian ()
Date: October 10, 2019 10:47PM

'Someone will give you a demo ride!'

Okay.Thanks Matt.

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: October 10, 2019 11:14PM

The Californian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 'All Corvair cars came with 13" wheels'
>
> Thanks.
>
> 'you are in a hard corner and let off the gas it will oversteer'
>
> Okay.Most cars something happens when you let off the gas.
>
> 'The discussion topic is camber compensators'
>
> We are kind of up a creek without one to look at or a chance to buy one and try it out.
>


Here's your chance! thumbs up

> > > Click here for Bob's personal chance to own an EM Corvair. < < <

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, '62 Monza Wagon, '63 Spyder, '65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dualy, approaching 400K
17'Terry

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Date: October 11, 2019 05:38AM

I pushed mine around an off-ramp pretty hard last night. Got a little tire squeal and the rear felt heavy but it didn't come around and I didn't flip over. Lowered a rung with 14" wheels like Matt said, it handled beautifully.

1961 Corvair 700 Sedan - 3sp - Gasoline Heat - Lowered a bit - Rust in Progress
I live my life 19.5 seconds at a time.


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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: October 11, 2019 03:54PM

If you lower your early to get a couple of degrees of negative rear camber, Good shocks, tight suspension, Front bar,the early gives up nothing to a late except brakes.. Its not the early 60s where all you had was Bias ply tires. The Modern Radial Tire is an earlies best friend, they Like Camber gain. FC or custom axles if your going serious auto crossing. A rear Bar would be great if your not interested in heavy springs and the rough ride that can come with them. Ditch the Compensator and if you think your going to be sideways in the Air Dirt tracking put some Limiters on smiling smiley If your just going to ride around and enjoy your car don't do anything. Our Cars are pretty cool as is ! Mike

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: ensys ()
Date: October 12, 2019 06:50PM

In order of appearance:

Mr.Cali:

Who said anything about transferring "lateral" forces?.

Mr.Place:

Porsche CC: No, it does not. The ends only act in one direction.

Mr.63turbo:

Fascinating. So, the Answer is 7ft. axles with 10x10in Mini wheels on the ends. Who'da thunk.

Mr.Cali:

If I may be so bold, I would assert that precious few important vehicle dynamics solutions have been resolved thru "trial and error". The best answers come from knowing enough to ask the right questions.


Hmmm... Topical redundancies and circular logic on a meandering path : it's back to the Shadows for me.

Keep 'em flying...

S.J.Szabo

From America's
Automobile Heartland

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 12, 2019 07:31PM

"Porsche CC: No, it does not. The ends only act in one direction."
Not possible. You may want to read up on geometry. If it isn't connected in the middle at all then the only difference it would make is that it wouldn't do anything when both wheels dropped at the same time. That would make it inferior to the Corvair leaf that resists downward travel in that situation.
When one wheel compresses the leaf will try to make the other extend on both designs.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: momach ()
Date: October 12, 2019 07:39PM

Joel, "When one wheel compresses the leaf will try to make the other extend on both designs."

The '64 Corvair has two bolts attaching the transverse leaf to the diff. That creates a plane at center. I don't see how force from one side gets transferred if it doesn't pivot. Those two bolts would have to be longitudinal to do that.

On the Wet side of Washington State

one too many cars,(maybe)

multiple Corvairs.
1962 Buick Skylark
1967 Datsun 2000 roadster

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 12, 2019 07:49PM

It does pivot. If it didn't that bracket would get destroyed quickly. There is a lot of rubber there and little movement required at that spot. To keep it stationary it would require a heavy wide bracket like a Corvette.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: momach ()
Date: October 12, 2019 07:51PM

My memory of the rubber mounting had escaped me. So, it does move.

On the Wet side of Washington State

one too many cars,(maybe)

multiple Corvairs.
1962 Buick Skylark
1967 Datsun 2000 roadster

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: October 12, 2019 08:54PM

Here's an example of what a well set-up early can do against lates under racing conditions... be sure to stop the video on every car in the corner shots and watch what the outside real wheel is doing, and what the body is doing and compare that with #362 is doing, which is the only early in the race. It was very suprising to me that any of the lates exhibited tuck under!
[www.youtube.com]

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: October 12, 2019 09:17PM

Kevin, please do some screen-shots of this LM tuck-under!
I did not have time to try and pause it while watching, but from what I could see, the outside wheels all looked firmly planted flat on the track, and the inside wheels appeared to be cambered fairly good, but none looked like they were lifting, or tucking.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, '62 Monza Wagon, '63 Spyder, '65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dualy, approaching 400K
17'Terry

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: October 12, 2019 10:00PM

Stop on 4:17, 6:03 6:21 (362 in same corner), but probably the best example is at 6:22 in this same corner. It is probably caused by body lean and tire flex.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: October 12, 2019 10:44PM

4:17, I do not see anything happening other than maybe a bit of sidewall flexing.
6:03, #57 has a little body lean.
6:21, 362 looks to be sitting pretty flat through that curve.
6:22, #13 on the other hand looks to be listing like a ship in a gale! That car has a fair amount of body-roll. I wonder how much his suspension settings are different from everyone else's.

I don't know Kevin, there may have been a little bit of camber shift going on, but, I did not see anything that I would call "tuck-under".

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, '62 Monza Wagon, '63 Spyder, '65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dualy, approaching 400K
17'Terry

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: October 13, 2019 07:02AM

>
> I don't know Kevin, there may have been a little bit of camber shift going on, but, I did not see anything that I would call "tuck-under".

Mel- I shouldn't have described that as "tuck under" because true tuck under
would have the wheel getting farther away from the body as well as positive camber relative to the ground and to the body and tire side wall flex bad enough to put some of the tire "under" the rim. I sure as heck wouldn't want the wheel that tipped over to the ground though, and didn't think lates actually did that, but yes it is a body lean problem.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: The Californian ()
Date: October 13, 2019 05:28PM

If you feel you must learn about suspension geometry this is probably a good place

to start.

This book has been around forever and gets good reviews.

THE CALIFORNIANS

BIG HORSEPOWER HIGH SPEED ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE!

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