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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: The Californian ()
Date: October 07, 2019 08:45AM

Thank you Ken

What I get from that is this:

1 Learn to drive your '60-63 like Dan Gurney

2 Only drive on a close road race course BY YOURSELF!

That way avoiding sudden harsh maneuvers.

2 Only drive on dry pavement with no wind.

Good.Just air up the tires, check the oil and go out and throw that little Corvair

around!

Thank you Jerry

'I'll try to find them and post'

Thanks.

We will be using '61-63 stock parts for mid engine and will still have to

contend with those 45 degree 'trailing swing arms'/torque control arms.

Will section the crossmember and use it with arms trailing as stock ones do.

That is even with drive train turned around 180.

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: caroseiii ()
Date: October 07, 2019 09:52AM

You should look at a photo of a Corvair with a stock engine in the mid engine configuration before your begin this project. There are a number of awkward angles for servicing the engine in such a configuration that may make it a hassle to live with. You will still have to install it from underneath the car.

Crawford Rose

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: The Californian ()
Date: October 07, 2019 10:14AM

Thank you Crawford

'Corvair with a stock engine in the mid engine configuration'

Just to be clear.

We build tube chassis.Very simple designs.'Rolling Engine Teststands'.

Goal is to use as many parts from the Corvair as possible.

To do an end run around complicated special fabrication.

Frames like one in this picture.

Norm Balkowski Buick power road race car.Ours will not be as refined by a long

shot.

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Date: October 07, 2019 11:07AM

For those that have reading comp issues, can you guys have a video-off explaining each argument? Thanks.

1961 Corvair 700 Sedan - 3sp - Gasoline Heat - Lowered a bit - Rust in Progress
I live my life 19.5 seconds at a time.


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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 07, 2019 11:19AM

I'm not sure what you are looking for but basically roll center is determined by the pivot points in the suspension. You can't change it unless you move those points.
Roll stiffness is a measurement of how resistant the body is to roll. It can be changed without moving the suspension pivots through stiffer springs, anti-roll bars etc.

The '64 leaf is specifically designed to add stiffness to the rear suspension without adding roll stiffness.

Think about a '64 with no rear coil springs. If it weren't for the front springs it would bottom out to one side or the other (zero roll stiffness) but if you balance the car and push down on the rear you have spring resistance from the leaf.

I'm not sure if this even addresses your question but I wouldn't know how to make a video to explain these concepts. Maybe someone else will step up.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: The Californian ()
Date: October 07, 2019 03:02PM

Thanks.

'explaining each argument?'

Toe in of rear suspension.

If rear suspension is pushed down or pulled up.

The front of rear tires will point inward a little.

Like holding your feet with the 'TOEs pointing IN'.

How about that?

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: JerryM ()
Date: October 08, 2019 06:30AM

For the curious, EM Rear Toe

Vertical deflection(bump & rebound) from design height:
*25" Dia. Tire*

1"= .041 deg = .017"

2"= .164 deg = .071"

3"= .369 deg = .161"

4"= .656 deg = .286"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2019 06:31AM by JerryM.

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Date: October 08, 2019 06:42AM

Yes I understand how toe works. That's not what I was referring to. The way I am understanding early suspension, it almost seems you would want sufficient body roll. Yo could run rear airbags teeing them together with a single fill port to accomplish this.

1961 Corvair 700 Sedan - 3sp - Gasoline Heat - Lowered a bit - Rust in Progress
I live my life 19.5 seconds at a time.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2019 06:49AM by UnauthorizedServiceTech.

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: October 08, 2019 07:57AM

Any one want to purchase a NEW never installed offering (with instructions) from Hellwig industries? PM my your best offer plus shipping.
You can then experiment, video and report back here for everyone's viewing pleasure.


'29 Ford Model A Tudor
'61 700 Lakewood 110 4 speed
'69 Monza Convert. 140 Auto.
'70 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 4 speed

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 08, 2019 08:12AM

WM.... those are "Overload Springs"??

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: October 08, 2019 08:23AM

Nope!

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 08, 2019 12:26PM

Ok, so what are they? I can't make out the mounting picture. Are they for FCs? If so, I'm interested.
Thanks!

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 08, 2019 01:08PM

I fixed the pics... Sure looks like "Load Levers"

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: The Californian ()
Date: October 08, 2019 02:07PM

Here is link saying what it is.

[www.sema.org]

The curve they are talking about in article is probably 'Dead Man's Curve'.

From the Dan & Jean song.

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 08, 2019 03:02PM

Those would behave very differently from the transverse leaf. They would increase the spring rate and roll stiffness while reducing the spring rate on wheel extension which would help it not tuck. A little like the limiting straps on extension.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: The Californian ()
Date: October 08, 2019 03:16PM

That is a good way to put it.

There are two issues there.

First one.

'increase the spring rate and roll stiffness'

Second one.

'reducing the spring rate on wheel extension'

Choice is whether to go soft springs and have extended wheel stand on it's edge.

Go heavy springs and have wheel stay square to car and lift up all together.

Lift up 'tucked' or lift up 'square'.

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: The Californian ()
Date: October 08, 2019 03:21PM

With stiffer suspension.

The pressed down wheel behaves like a solid axle and pressed down wheel rolls over

on it's out edge.

With soft springs the pressed down wheel stays square to the road but your

extended wheel stands on edge.

Make your choice.

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 08, 2019 04:04PM

Good thing is inside wheel on a turn doesn't do much.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: Spyderman64 ()
Date: October 08, 2019 04:57PM

I don’t have an automotive engineering degree and I‘m not a professional racing driver. That said, I’ve owned a ‘64 Spyder, a ‘62 Spyder with factory h.d. suspension, a ‘60 Monza and a ‘63 Monza , the latter two with stock, standard suspensions. The ‘60 had lots of positive rear camber and oversteered badly. I eventually clamped the rear springs to tame it. The ‘63 oversteered to a lesser degree but would also spin out when pushed. The Spyders both handled very well, with much higher cornering limits than the Monzas. The biggest difference between the Spyders was a softer ride in the ‘64. I think that is exactly what Chevy was trying to accomplish with the ‘64 suspension changes. Better handling than the earlier cars, a softer ride with equivalent handling to the h.d. cars.

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Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: The Californian ()
Date: October 08, 2019 05:23PM

'inside wheel on a turn doesn't do much'

True.Helpful on straightaways though.

'lots of positive rear camber'

Okay.Which way is 'positive' camber?

Bill Fisher book says 'decamber' front and back.

Makes sense to me.'Sag' the split axles.

Car has more more way to go before axle tucks in.

'factory h.d. suspension'

Book also says get HDS springs and lists part numbers.

Get the book! Well worth.We prefer early '69 edition.

Other big thing is use wide wheels and tires.

Here is picture of Corvair wheels tucking in.

Look at the 'tread area' of 60's Corvair tires.Yikes!





'

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