Corvair DiagramCorvair Photo
Corvair Center
home forum corvairs calendar links Corvair Podcast
California Corvairs
Clarks Corvair
Clarks Corvair
“CORSA"



Chevy Corvair License Plate
Chevy Corvair Chrome Wheel
Corvair Center Forum :  Corvair Center Phorum The fastest message board... ever.
Corvair Center 
Current Page: 2 of 7
Re: Corvarir EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: Bigwave ()
Date: September 28, 2019 07:30PM

Vintage catalog page.

I had one and misplaced it! Which is hard to do considering its size!!

Bigwave Dave Trull, Sierra Vista Arizona
Former owner 1966 Turbo Convertible Pilots 23 & 27
Former owner 1969 Convertible #5997




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2019 07:31PM by Bigwave.

Attachments:
Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: September 28, 2019 08:51PM

Installs with vise grips and a hammer? LOL

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 28, 2019 09:47PM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Installs with vise grips and a hammer? LOL

=============================================

Yup like many factory setups... strapped / wrapped to existing metal!

And the straps... Carlot I worked at we used chains bolts / washers

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: September 29, 2019 09:33AM

Flat six, I do indeed have an engineering diploma. So any time you want to see it, the door's always open.

Joel, I said roll center and meant it.

The Corvair leaf spring does indeed pivot on the diff case. The Empi camber compensator doesn't.

The Corvair design works by softening the coils and adding the leaf spring. It thus alters the roll center and thus adds to the car's cornering ability and handling characteristics.

The Empi design does no such thing, but is supposed to alter the wheel cambering characteristics during cornering.

-Mark

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: September 29, 2019 07:04PM

Take the leaf off, Put a few degrees of negative camber in the rear with 63 springs, If you think your gonna go wild in the turns, get side ways, take a few dirt excursions add some limiter straps. Just enjoy your early and drive it. Mike

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: September 29, 2019 07:26PM

67 airvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The Corvair leaf spring does indeed pivot on the diff case. The Empi camber compensator doesn't.
>

I suppose this could be false advertising, but I rather think this is an accurate description (lower left). Clearly indicates that the EMPI pivots in the middle:


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: momach ()
Date: September 29, 2019 08:01PM

The 1962 Spyder has limiting straps, and firmer springs. I assume the '63 Spyder does also.

On the Wet side of Washington State

one too many cars,(maybe)

multiple Corvairs.
1962 Buick Skylark
1967 Datsun 2000 roadster

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: September 29, 2019 08:20PM

momach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 1962 Spyder has limiting straps, and firmer springs. I assume the '63 Spyder does also.


The lower control arm straps were discontinued after 1962 model year based on the 1962 factory assembly manual, however, my early production 1963 Corvair Spyder did have them. Problem was that the cotton straps rotted out quickly in the salt belt.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woodstock CT... Located on the Connecticut / Massachusetts border, approximately 6 miles from the center of Southbridge MA. About 45 minutes from Hartford CT. 1 1/2 hours West of Boston MA. Woodstock CT to Los Angeles CA 2,937.1 miles. 1 Mile as the crow flies to Big Bird's nest.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: September 29, 2019 08:46PM

momach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 1962 Spyder has limiting straps, and firmer springs. I assume the '63 Spyder does also.

The axle limit straps were only offered for a short time, the 63 Spyders don't have these. The axle limit straps are in my humble a band aid and are no cure for "jacking", but setting the rear wheels to have negative camber, and lowering the c.g. is.
Modern radial tires really "like" having negative camber in ways that the old bias ply tires in the 60's just hated! Some modern performance tires even specify a 2 to 3 degree negative camber as the initial setting for best cornering power.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: mwr ()
Date: September 29, 2019 10:53PM

flat_six Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 67 airvair Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> I suppose this could be false advertising, but I rather think this is an accurate description (lower left). Clearly indicates that the EMPI pivots in the middle:

I have an EMPI camber compensator on my Spyder, and it does pivot. You can see the curve or crown in the attachment point on the bracket, which lets the leaf rock a bit either way.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: JerryM ()
Date: September 30, 2019 06:44AM

The Californian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Howdy!
>
> Read this article about '60-63 Corvairs and it is convincing about if you have one
>
> of those to do something about the handling.
>
> I know we sure are going to!
>
> [www.curbsideclassic.com]
>
> Part about Camber Compensator is about half way down in article.
>
> Article seems even handed and fair.Has constructive advice.
>
> NOTE: Camber Compensator is not going to work as well with worn out coil
>
> springs and shocks.


This subject comes up periodically. Regarding the spring itself I'll reiterate:

*The transverse leaf's purpose is to "de-stabilize" and de-couple the roll of the rear wheel pair. Nothing to do with camber or any effect on the roll center of the car ; "camber compensator" is a misnomer. In essence it is the opposite of the front stabilizer. It contributes nothing to roll rate, which is very desirable for this purpose - no roll rate means no roll. In the case of the Corvair with it's weight distribution and C.G., it may be possible to dispense with the coil springs entirely and have zero rear roll rate!*
This concept has been implemented in other forms, notably the Z-bar and the "Swing Around" which employs a shock cord.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: momach ()
Date: September 30, 2019 06:46AM

And the Junkman said, "Problem was that the cotton straps rotted out quickly in the salt belt."
Thanks Junk, Clark's doesn't have replacement straps and I was wondering what they were made of.

Kevin 63turbo said, "The axle limit straps were only offered for a short time, the 63 Spyders don't have these. The axle limit straps are in my humble a band aid and are no cure for "jacking", but setting the rear wheels to have negative camber, and lowering the c.g. is.
Modern radial tires really "like" having negative camber in ways that the old bias ply tires in the 60's just hated! Some modern performance tires even specify a 2 to 3 degree negative camber as the initial setting for best cornering power."

Thank you Kevin, one of these days, I will set up my early like this.
Problem is, when the back end gets unloaded, especially during cornering. Many years ago, when I first got into Corvairs, a friend who had plenty of experience driving on the track with British cars, told me his experience with an early Corvair. He drives over a railroad track, that's elevated and at an angle. Didn't spin it, but convinced him that the Corvair wasn't for him. I know that sort of body motion is a challenge for any suspension design. Ultimately, a Z bar may also be an improvement.

On the Wet side of Washington State

one too many cars,(maybe)

multiple Corvairs.
1962 Buick Skylark
1967 Datsun 2000 roadster

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: barney ()
Date: September 30, 2019 07:29AM

We purchased a new 1960 Monza after seeing one at the Indy track ...it arrived just after the 4th of July holiday.
My local dealer knew me, I had worked there during high school...EMPI must have sent many Chevy dealers sample front sway bars and camber compensators as he called me one day saying he had something for me.

Gave me the new sway bar and camber compensator and they did make a big difference, especially reducing oversteer. One item I recall....those round outer spacers were rubber tubing and at one point needed to be replaced.
I replaced them with available rubber tubing (heater type hose) and tried to make them better by slipping a larger tube over the regular size replacement. Don't think they need replacing again.

We only had the car about 3 years as our family outgrew the Corvair.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: NMCarNut ()
Date: September 30, 2019 08:02AM

The rebound straps (limiting straps) were part of the optional heavy duty suspension package offered in 62-63 that was available on all car models but the wagon. The HD suspension package was one of the required options when the Spyder was first introduced in spring of 62 but the requirement was dropped a shortly after.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: September 30, 2019 09:18AM

Mark, so you are claiming that the '64 leaf or the Empi device actually move the suspension pivot points somehow? That is the only way to change roll center. You might want to Google "roll center".

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: October 02, 2019 06:10AM

Perhaps some insights from another early 60's marque will benefit this discussion. The 356 S-90 had a rear camber compensator. This description below is quoted from a long-time 356 race car builder/driver Vic Skirmants. The bold emphasis is mine. My '62 Spyder has a '64 rear suspension. Currently no front antisway bar is installed and it's fun to throw into corners.

"There has been a myth built up over the S-90 camber compensator since 1960. By itself, it does nothing to improve the handling! The factory put it on when they installed softer rear torsion bars, so the back of the car could still have the same load-carrying capabilities. The softer bar made the rear of the car roll more, so the front end would take more of the cornering loads. This increased understeer, only making it seem like the car had decreased oversteer. The factory compensator is incapable of preventing the rear wheels from "jacking up" during hard cornering, which is the biggest detriment to a swing axles cornering abilities."

Ken
'62 Spyder Coupe
Florida


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 02, 2019 08:21AM

"This increased understeer, only making it seem like the car had decreased oversteer"
Huh?
Sorry, you can't have both at the same time.

"The softer bar made the rear of the car roll more, so the front end would take more of the cornering loads."
True.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: October 02, 2019 09:08AM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "This increased understeer, only making it seem like the car had decreased oversteer"
> Huh?
> Sorry, you can't have both at the same time.
>
> "The softer bar made the rear of the car roll more, so the front end would take more of the cornering loads."
> True.

What they are saying is that the setup increases understeer, but does not decrease oversteer. The net result is a car that behaves more like most American drivers expect, but with lower lateral acceleration capability overall.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 02, 2019 09:22AM

That is what they are saying but it isn't possible. They are opposites.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Corvair EMPI Camber Compensator
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: October 02, 2019 09:40AM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is what they are saying but it isn't possible. They are opposites.


Yes it is possible. It can be a bit hard to explain and get one's head around. Let me try another angle:

When entering a corner at high speed, adding a larger anti-sway bar in front causes the onset of understeer to occur before the onset of oversteer. Basically, in fast corners, the lower limit of adhesion up front causes you to go off the road nose first, before the back end has the chance to break loose.

Overall, the car has less cornering ability in this situation, but some people feel that this behavior makes the car safer for unskilled drivers.

Options: ReplyQuote
Current Page: 2 of 7


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.