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OT? Lucas "Hot Rod and Classic" High Performance Motor Oil
Posted by: Caraholic4life ()
Date: September 10, 2019 02:40PM

I was in a NAPA store this afternoon and spotted a display of Lucas products which included "Hot Rod and Classic" High Performance Motor Oil.

It appears to have higher levels of ZDDP (2,100 PPM) in it which as I understand it, is a good thing. PLEASE Correct me if I am wrong here. Has anyone here used this product yet?
Richard, Your two cents would benefit us too.

Here is a cut and paste from the Lucas web page on this product. [lucasoil.com]

"Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Car Motor Oil SAE 10W-30 is manufactured with the highest quality paraffinic base oils and is fortified with a unique additive package containing high levels of zinc, molybdenum and phosphorus, which provides a tougher, thicker additive film for maximum protection even under the most severe conditions. It improves the film strength between the cylinder wall and piston rings and slows oil burning and improves pressure in worn engines. It has good cold temperature properties and stands up to high operating temperatures. It is compatible with methanol and all racing fuels, as well as with synthetic and non-synthetic oils.

Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Car Motor Oil SAW 10W-30 is for muscle, showroom, classic and trophy cars without catalytic converters.
It can be used in racing applications. Not recommended for passenger car use.


Available in convenient 5 quart bottles, the formulation is perfect for the Hot Rod and Classic Car crowd with an increased zinc value of 2100 PPM. Because many of these very special machines often spend long periods (winter for example in some parts of the country) off the roads, a number of the components of the additive package used in Lucas' Marine oils to provide rust and corrosion protection have been included in its unique formula."

Here is a Link for the Technical Data Sheet. [lucasoil.com]

Edited to "Bold" part of the cut and pasted text.

1962 95 F.C. Van
1965 Monza Coupe
Westminster, Maryland

MID ENG enthusiast &
prior Kelmark owner.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2019 02:43PM by Caraholic4life.

Attachments:
Re: OT? Lucas "Hot Rod and Classic" High Performance Motor Oil
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: September 10, 2019 02:43PM

I read somewhere in all this oil debate that too much ZDDP caused increased wear. I can't remember what "too much" was. Also how much ZDDP was normal in the '60s?

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

Re: OT? Lucas "Hot Rod and Classic" High Performance Motor Oil
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: September 10, 2019 05:50PM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read somewhere in all this oil debate that too much ZDDP caused increased wear. I can't remember what "too much" was. Also how much ZDDP was normal in the '60s?


A better question might be, . . . . How much is needed by our '60s cars?
Even what was "Normal" in the '60s, may have been more than necessary.
Well Richard, we are all waiting with bated breath!

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza - Sale pending
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, '62 Monza Wagon, '63 Spyder, '65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dualy, approaching 400K
17'Terry

Re: OT? Lucas "Hot Rod and Classic" High Performance Motor Oil
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 10, 2019 06:28PM

From an article in Old Cars Weekly;

A little about ZDP
ZDP (Zinc dithiophosphate) in the range of 0.03 percent was first added to engine oil more than 60 years ago to control bearing corrosion.

In the mid 1950s, Chrysler and Oldsmobile engaged in a horsepower race using high-lift camshafts, and both experienced camshaft scuffing and wear problems. These problems were overcome by better metallurgy for camshafts and lifters, phosphating the camshaft and increasing the level of ZDP to 0.08 percent. Another outcome of these problems was the development of a battery of industry-wide “Sequence” oil tests, including tests for valve train scuffing and wear. These tests have continued to evolve and improve ever since.

Some oil suppliers, believing if some ZDP was good, more would be better, added increased levels of ZDP. Unfortunately, we later learned that, with more than 0.14 percent ZDP, long-term wear increased, even though break-in wear was reduced. It was also discovered that at about 0.20 percent phosphorous, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

In the 1970s, the ZDP level was set at 0.10 percent phosphorous to take advantage of its antioxidant properties. Increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in Cadillacs pulling big Airstream trailers from thickening to the point of not pumping.


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Re: OT? Lucas "Hot Rod and Classic" High Performance Motor Oil
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: September 10, 2019 06:52PM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From an article in Old Cars Weekly;
>
> A little about ZDP
> ZDP (Zinc dithiophosphate) in the range of 0.03 percent was first added to engine oil more than 60 years ago to control bearing corrosion.
>
> In the mid 1950s, Chrysler and Oldsmobile engaged in a horsepower race using high-lift camshafts, and both experienced camshaft scuffing and wear problems. These problems were overcome by better metallurgy for camshafts and lifters, phosphating the camshaft and increasing the level of ZDP to 0.08 percent. Another outcome of these problems was the development of a battery of industry-wide “Sequence” oil tests, including tests for valve train scuffing and wear. These tests have continued to evolve and improve ever since.
>
> Some oil suppliers, believing if some ZDP was good, more would be better, added increased levels of ZDP. Unfortunately, we later learned that, with more than 0.14 percent ZDP, long-term wear increased, even though break-in wear was reduced. It was also discovered that at about 0.20 percent phosphorous, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.
>
> In the 1970s, the ZDP level was set at 0.10 percent phosphorous to take advantage of its antioxidant properties. Increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in Cadillacs pulling big Airstream trailers from thickening to the point of not pumping.



Funny thing that!
I remember riding in our parents Caddy, pulling a Travel trailer while on vacation.
Now-a-days, everyone thinks they need a one-ton diesel truck to pull even a small utility trailer!
Okay, back to the topic!

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza - Sale pending
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, '62 Monza Wagon, '63 Spyder, '65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dualy, approaching 400K
17'Terry

Re: OT? Lucas "Hot Rod and Classic" High Performance Motor Oil
Date: September 11, 2019 05:48AM

I like Lucas products, but I just run Rotella SAE30. It quieted my noisy lifter.

1961 Corvair 700 Sedan - 3sp - Gasoline Heat - Lowered a bit - Rust in Progress
I live my life 19.5 seconds at a time.


Re: OT? Lucas "Hot Rod and Classic" High Performance Motor Oil
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: September 11, 2019 06:47PM

For years, the standard for zddp levels was 1100ppm, going back to the 1980's.
In the early 60's, to deal with the radical cams that were starting to show up in some muscle cars, GM raised the level of ZDDP from 400 ppm to 850, although some cheap oils well into the late 60's were still at this 400 ppm level, the "good stuff" was at 850ppm. The 1100ppm standard was then raised somewhat, but then came down again because it was found to ruin catalytic converters. It was also found, later (early 2000's) that it was excessive levels of phosphorus not zinc that was ruining the catalytic converter, and since that time, the industry has discovered that theres numerous extreme pressure anti wear compounds that protect highly loaded parts in the engine (eight separate ones if I remember right). These days, you cannot "grade" oils by zddp levels, because theres so many different additives added that are designed to work together. The myth out there is that synthetics don't have enough zddp to protect your engine if it has a flat tappet cam with pushrods, the reality is that NUMEROUS folks are running radical flat tappet/pushrod engines on the street running a good quality synthetic with ZERO cam wear issues, and been for a long time. For what it is worth, I've got 8500 miles on my new cam which is in the .450" lift range, and has been running 0w-40 Mobil 1 European formula the whole time since break in. If I was going to have ruined a cam for oil reason's it would have been 7500 miles ago!

Back to the original question... 2000ppm is way too much for anything!!! you want to ruin a cam quick, put it in, but if you want your engine to live a long time, find something else!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



Re: OT? Lucas "Hot Rod and Classic" High Performance Motor Oil
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: September 12, 2019 03:05PM

That article Matt posted is right on. That product is aimed at the person who does not understand the full impact of ZDDP, and thinks more is better.

It is a dangerous product to use.

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Re: OT? Lucas "Hot Rod and Classic" High Performance Motor Oil
Posted by: Caraholic4life ()
Date: September 12, 2019 03:37PM

Thank You for the input. Kevin and Richard, It is appreciated.
If the standard prior to the 1980's was right around 1,100 PPM, this "New" product at 2,100 PPM is out of line.
IF I were to give this product serious consideration, I might use one, maybe two quarts of it along with the rest being non ZDDP oil.
At the moment though, I simply think I will pass all together.

1962 95 F.C. Van
1965 Monza Coupe
Westminster, Maryland

MID ENG enthusiast &
prior Kelmark owner.

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