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Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 08, 2019 08:01PM

Have one in my hand for along term project.. it Symmetrical!

So... the question is... Why not from the front side? I'm sure it's simple...but it cannot be about the sealing surface... or is it?

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Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: September 08, 2019 08:36PM

I've never seen one that was symmetrical. The lips always face one direction.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 08, 2019 08:45PM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've never seen one that was symmetrical. The lips always face one direction.

==========================================================

The one I'm holding and looking at with a magnifying lamp.... inner 0.060" is a "V"....

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: jcorvair ()
Date: September 08, 2019 09:45PM

The spring that forces the lip outward is on the inside, or it was on the one a machine shop once installed from the outside. It leaked like a sieve. I am not sure how a symmetrical one would be designed.

James
West Kelowna, BC

1965 Corvair, Corsa, Convertible 180/4 - Artesian Turquoise w/ white interior
1966 Corvair Corsa Coupe, 140/4 - Aztec Bronze w/ black interior
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Turbo
2016 Dodge 3500 Crew Cab 4x4 (for hauling cars, trailers, fifth wheels, quads, etc.)
2013 Victory Car Hauler (enclosed)
2019 Express Car Hauler (Aluminum, Enclosed)
2015 Polaris 570 EPS
2016 Polaris 570 SP
2017 Corvette Z06 Convertible

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: September 08, 2019 10:13PM

It looks symmetrical holding it in your hand but watch what happens to that lip when it is stretched over the crank.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 08, 2019 10:15PM

James... I think you mean it compresses the "lip" to help it seal. Nothing on this one pushes in or outward..

If what you say is correct.... then a person could just cut the metal LIP OR purchase a seal with no lip. and treat it as a "Shift Shaft" seal.

Even though I don't drive long trips in a Vair any longer... I'm always thinking of making "motel parkinglot" repairs easier / doable.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 08, 2019 10:20PM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It looks symmetrical holding it in your hand but watch what happens to that lip when it is stretched over the crank.
====================================================

It must straighten out with use... the only "groove" I've ever seen were less than fingernail width....

And a "Speedy Sleeve" might help it as well!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: jcorvair ()
Date: September 08, 2019 10:24PM

When mine was leaking the machine shop owner and an NHRA racer showed me the space behind, or I guess outside as it is round, the lip. That open space faces inward. Unfortunately I don’t have any seals to check right now. I thought there was actually a very tiny wound spring in that opening to squeeze the lip against the crank.

James
West Kelowna, BC

1965 Corvair, Corsa, Convertible 180/4 - Artesian Turquoise w/ white interior
1966 Corvair Corsa Coupe, 140/4 - Aztec Bronze w/ black interior
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Turbo
2016 Dodge 3500 Crew Cab 4x4 (for hauling cars, trailers, fifth wheels, quads, etc.)
2013 Victory Car Hauler (enclosed)
2019 Express Car Hauler (Aluminum, Enclosed)
2015 Polaris 570 EPS
2016 Polaris 570 SP
2017 Corvette Z06 Convertible

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: September 08, 2019 10:26PM

I've never looked at a used edge under a magnifying glass but it would have a sharp edge against the crank until it was stretched enough to lay on it's side which would be bad.
There is a spring inside the seal.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2019 10:27PM by joelsplace.

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 08, 2019 10:58PM

Correct.. on the spiral spring..

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 08, 2019 11:11PM

James, you are correct about orientation!

SKF seal book

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: September 09, 2019 06:37PM

Just in case anyone is curious, there's something like .090" between the shoulder on the crank and the seal. Some cranks had a oil slinger on that end to keep excess oil away from the seal and hopefully prevent leaking. I think the reason that the lip of the seal is on that side might have something to do with oiling of that seal. If the crankcase has a bit of vaccum, the seal, oriented as it is should allow some air from the outside inwards, pushing oil away, when oil is being pushed towards the seal from the cam gear, the oil should stop excess air (and oil) from leaving through the lip, as it would tend to tighten up. I know that in many cases this effing seal doesn't work as intended, but think that is the idea behind the seal being oriented as it is.
I think that seal would work a lot better if there was a crank slinger on it... my 2 cents!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: alphasud ()
Date: September 09, 2019 07:43PM

I’m confused by this discussion. When I read Matt’s question I interpret it being why can’t you remove the retaining lip that makes you have to install it from the crankcase side so you can install it the correct way from the outside in the way all modern seals are installed?

David North Idaho
1965 Corsa Turbo converted to 140
1971 Super Beetle with 2.5L Subaru engine
2004 F350 work truck
2004 Cayenne Turbo

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: vairchet ()
Date: September 09, 2019 09:06PM

Interesting information that could be useful:

Chet in Ramona

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 09, 2019 09:13PM

Now that is great info! and explains WHY!!


To me it shows the common seal we use could, with the Outer ring removed... be inserted from the Flywheel side....

And the use of the Early style slinger in addition, would possibly improve a seals performance!


Chet... have a pick of the Slinger and snap ring?

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: vairchet ()
Date: September 09, 2019 10:46PM

This is what you remove from '60 to early '61 crankshafts when installing uprated front crankshaft seal:

Chet in Ramona



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2019 10:48PM by vairchet.

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 09, 2019 10:53PM

So simple and they work so well....

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Front Main Oil seal.... Why does it have to go behind Bellhousing?
Posted by: vairchet ()
Date: September 09, 2019 11:34PM

Front seal comparison (GM seal is best. Others?):

Chet in Ramona

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