Corvair DiagramCorvair Photo
Corvair Center
home forum corvairs calendar links Corvair Podcast
California Corvairs
Clarks Corvair
Clarks Corvair
“CORSA"



Chevy Corvair License Plate
Chevy Corvair Chrome Wheel
Corvair Center Forum :  Corvair Center Phorum The fastest message board... ever.
Corvair Center 
OT: Ford Fusion MT Troubleshooting Help
Posted by: JP_REX ()
Date: July 01, 2019 05:45PM

Hi Everyone,
My wife has a 2010 Ford Fusion with the rare 6-spd manual transmission. I would really appreciate your help troubleshooting an intermittent problem.

Two years ago this summer, several times we had the transmission grind without dropping into gear when shifting from 1st to 2nd. It wasn't like the typical "grunch" sound you get with a weak syncro just before it goes into gear. Instead it was a high speed grind that sounded like the clutch wasn't disengaged. The sound was so startling that we (it happened to both her and me) would release the shifter and then try again.

On 1-2 shifts where the problem I described didn't occur, the shift was perfect. There was never an "in between" poor shift where it would crunch a little before going into gear. It either was perfect or it was like trying to shift with the clutch still engaged.

This only happened about a total of 10 times over a period of about a month or two until I had the clutch master cylinder replaced. That was just a guess replacement, but the problem seemed to go away. The problem returned at the same very low frequency of occurrence over the past 2 months (happened 3 or 4 times in 2 months).

There seems to be no obvious combination of factors that causes it to occur, however, I am suspicious that it may be related to Summer heat. The clutch master cylinder replacement was performed at the end of the Summer, so maybe it was the cooler fall temperatures that caused the problem to disappear. Also, last Summer the car was out of service waiting for a Takata airbag replacement, so this is really the 1st Summer since the clutch MC replacement.

Any thoughts on the cause or troubleshooting techniques?

Thanks!

John

67 Coupe 110/4-spd

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OT: Ford Fusion MT Troubleshooting Help
Posted by: 65 Crown Corsa ()
Date: July 01, 2019 07:55PM

Is the fluid due for service?

Ed
65 Crown/Wills Corsa
WPB Florida

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OT: Ford Fusion MT Troubleshooting Help
Posted by: vairsUPnorth ()
Date: July 01, 2019 08:35PM

Hello John,

I was unaware that the Fusion was ever available with a MT--you learn something new every day.

My wife and I have only driven MT daily drivers for the last 35 years so I have seen a number of clutch linkage/hydraulic failures and some worn out disks but interestingly, no transmission failures.

Apparently your Ford services the clutch master and slave cylinders as separate units instead of a complete master/slave/line/prefilled/bled unit system used for the last 30 yrs or so on Jeep and Chrysler (AM, DC & FCA) vehicles. Is the slave cylinder for your Fusion integral with the throwout bearing? I would be suspicious of the slave cylinder since you already replaced the master. Is there any fluid loss? I hope it doesn't require a powertrain removal to get to the slave if that is the problem.

When was the last time the transmission fluid was changed? You could perhaps have a sticking synchronizer [1st gear not releasing] that is causing the problem. I almost had the same problem with our 2005 Subaru Legacy GT but have attributed it to operator error of not pushing the clutch pedal down fully when making a quick shift (with spirited driving). Adding a 1" spacer to the clutch pedal has mostly eliminated this problem. If you try launching slowly in a parking lot where in the clutch travel does it take up?

Dale

DD's;
2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser 2.4L/5 >>>FOR SALE<<<
2001 Dodge 2500HD [3500SRW] QC 4X4 5.9L Cummins/6
2004 Jeep Liberty 4x4 2.4L/6
2005 Subaru Legacy GT 2.5T/5
2018 RAM 3500 CC 4X4 SRW 6.7L Cummins/6

Dale Dewald
Hancock, MI


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OT: Ford Fusion MT Troubleshooting Help
Posted by: JP_REX ()
Date: July 02, 2019 05:48PM

Hi Dale and Ed,
Thanks for the replies. Here's some more info.

When the problem first started 2 years ago, I changed to the latest spec Ford MT oil. I think a conventional oil was originally spec'd but by that point Ford had switched their recommended oil to a synthetic. It was expensive oil, if I recall correctly.

It looks like the clutch slave cylinder is a external part, so I'm thinking about replacing it and the hose as a precaution. There's no visible leakage.

That's an interesting idea about the spacer. I might give that a try just to see what happens. Thanks for the suggestion.

Regarding the idea of a sticking 1st gear synchronizer, wouldn't the gearshift lever stick if that happened?

BTW, when we went to the Ford dealer and asked about a MT in 2010, he said "do you have any idea how long it's been since anyone asked me for a manual transmission?".

Also, my wife took the car to a big-box tire store once for a tire rotation. The old guy wasn't there that day and neither of the young guys working in the shop could drive it in. My wife had to drive the car into and out of the service bay.

Thanks!

John

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OT: Ford Fusion MT Troubleshooting Help
Posted by: vairsUPnorth ()
Date: July 04, 2019 06:34PM

Hello John,

I have installed clutch pedal spacers on both my 01 Dodge and 18 [Dodge] Ram trucks in addition to the Subaru. For all three vehicles the clutch doesn't release until the pedal is 3/4 of the way to the floor and the accelerator is nearly level with the brake/clutch at rest. If I keep the seat close enough to push the clutch into the carpet my right leg gets sore from being too close. I don't have this problem with the Jeep, P/T Cruiser or any of our Corvairs. (Of all of our vehicles the Greenbrier has the most comfortable driving position.)

The slave cylinder on your Fusion might not be leaking externally but slowly seeping back to the master. Try this test:
1) Start the car, which will require depressing the clutch, and shift to neutral.
2) Let out the clutch and let idle for 2-3 minutes.
3) Depress clutch and immediately try shifting into first. Does it shift easily or meet with some resistance?
4) Return transmission to neutral but keep clutch depressed for 2-3 minutes with the engine still idling.
5) Try shifting to first and note effort.
6) If any resistance is met shifting for either (3) or (5) then continue with;
7) Pump clutch pedal 3 times and shift on the 4th press.
If shifting is easy after (7) I would consider replacing the slave cylinder and bleeding the system.

BTW, I use the 01 Dodge to plow snow daily for about 5 months and 250-300" of snow every winter here in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. In addition to 5/8 mile of private road and driveway parking areas, I have two rental lots, three rental driveways, a commercial lot and occasionally our 250 car church lot to do. So far I haven't noticed my left leg to be any stronger or larger than my right....

DD's;
2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser 2.4L/5 >>>FOR SALE<<<
2001 Dodge 2500HD [3500SRW] QC 4X4 5.9L Cummins/6
2004 Jeep Liberty 4x4 2.4L/6
2005 Subaru Legacy GT 2.5T/5
2018 RAM 3500 CC 4X4 SRW 6.7L Cummins/6

Dale Dewald
Hancock, MI


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OT: Ford Fusion MT Troubleshooting Help
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: July 04, 2019 08:00PM

No slave cylinder I've ever seen can leak back to the master. They only have one line. They can leak fluid externally or suck air.
If they leak down it's the master cylinder.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OT: Ford Fusion MT Troubleshooting Help
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: July 05, 2019 07:24AM

"not be leaking externally but slowly seeping back to the master."

Maybe Dale is describing the fluid bypassing the rubber seal in the slave, i.e. it has failed to hold pressure. Like how a master cylinder fails, no leak but goes to the floor with slight pedal pressure, holds great with firm pedal pressure (for a while....grinning smiley).

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OT: Ford Fusion MT Troubleshooting Help
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: July 06, 2019 08:05PM

Well, too late for an edit, so let me retract what I just said above. If it leaks past the seal in a slave or wheel cylinder, the fluid should make its way to the outside of the slave or cylinder.

Brain reset.eye popping smiley

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OT: Ford Fusion MT Troubleshooting Help
Posted by: alphasud ()
Date: July 06, 2019 10:13PM

I have read your symptoms several times and even looked for known issues on a Mondeo forum. Since you have already done the master and it only happens from 1-2 very intermittently and you have already changed the fluid there has to be some burr on the synchro ring or the shift slider but either way it’s an internal issue. Alldata shows disassembly but no parts explosion so it might be a reman only option.

David North Idaho
1965 Corsa Turbo converted to 140
1971 Super Beetle with 2.5L Subaru engine
2004 F350 work truck
2004 Cayenne Turbo

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OT: Ford Fusion MT Troubleshooting Help
Posted by: JP_REX ()
Date: July 10, 2019 04:56PM

We have a new clue. The 1-2 grind remains very intermittent, however, the two times it has happened to my wife this week have been at the exact same location. This location is sloped down-hill, and she was driving straight down the hill. We live in a fairly flat area, so being pointed up or down during the 1-2 shift is probably unusual.

Does that clue give rise to any theories? If so, please share.

Maybe this weekend I'll drive to the spot and try to reproduce the problem.

Thanks!

John

Options: ReplyQuote


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.