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no spark on 1 and 5
Date: May 13, 2019 06:41PM

Hello!

Been chasing a problem and have it isolated but can't figure what could be causing the issue. I have had a chronic problem with my 64 monza. When it warms up, the idle gets rough and it stalls. I can't restart until the car cools down. It will turn over but won't fire. I hooked up the timing light and noticed i was not getting a consistent spark on 1 and 5 at idle but i WOULD GET SPARK if i revved the engine (???). I replaced the wires tonight but had the same issue. After warm, 1 and 5 cut out unless the engine is revved. As background I have:

rebuilt carbs
replaced fuel filter
replaced spark plugs
replaced coil
replaced distributor cap
cleaned the points
replaced plug wires

Any thoughts are appreciated. Some folks had previously mentioned the condenser in the distributor. I checked it out when I replaced the cap but swiftly realized I had no idea what to check or how to check it.

Thanks!

Ryan

Greenville, SC
Recent owner, Lifelong obsession
1964 Monza 4 speed - Daily Driver

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 13, 2019 06:46PM

Move the plug wires one hole... retime.... see if the problem follow the wires>
if not change the distributor Breaker plate... or whole distributor.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: May 13, 2019 06:51PM

We CAN'T blame Pertronics this time, since you said "cleaned the points" ! ! !
That quickly rules that one out. thumbs up

.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza - 140 4-spd. driver

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: SoloCP ()
Date: May 13, 2019 06:57PM

I would look at the distributor. The bushings on the shaft or the shaft it self could be causing a wobbling effect so the rotor could be not making contact constantly

Don
AKA (Polyvairist)
Kansas City
HACOA
Broken Halo Corvair Garage
62 Rampside
64 Spyder Coupe (Bill Pierson Car)
64 Monza Convertible,140/4 Speed,Electric Heat,Kelsey Hayes Wheels
64 Spyder Blown, (Dave Bolduc Car)
65 Corsa Convertible Triple Black, 140/4 Speed with A/C (aka Blackie)
65 Corsa 3.1 Liter Triple Weber (aka Unsafe)
66 Corvair V8 SuperVair (Created by Archibald Evans)
66 Avenger, Corvair Turbo, Fuel Injected, Air to Water intercool 140. (Michael Mann Car)

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: May 13, 2019 07:03PM

Cracked distributor cap?

Cheap to just replace it.

If good you have a spare.

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: May 13, 2019 07:09PM

Or two!!!

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: TerribleTed ()
Date: May 13, 2019 08:20PM

Phil Dally Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cracked distributor cap?
>
> Cheap to just replace it.
>
> If good you have a spare.



Just what I was thinking bad distributor cap arcing between posts. Easy to change to see if it makes a difference.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Avid Corvair hobbiest since 1984.
I have personally performed ground up restoration on over 20 Corvairs.
I currently work full time at restoring and repairing Corvairs.
Located in the Atlanta Georgia area.
[www.facebook.com]

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: MonzaJPD61 ()
Date: May 14, 2019 03:40AM

" replaced distributor cap"

"...when I replaced the cap..."

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: larry202br ()
Date: May 14, 2019 04:21AM

You can replace the condenser(s), (they're cheap), you will need a cap checker to check the cap. Preferably a checker that tests leakage, but value check should do.

While the weak spark is causing the rough running, it seems unlikely that is directly related to the no-start condition. When you get a no-start, can you see fuel squirting into the carbs when you work the throttle?

1961 rampside with a 65 / 67 110 engine, car four speed.
1965 convertible
1966 Custom two door/four door

KC0SKX
Olathe, ks
HACOA

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: May 14, 2019 07:48PM

Quote
Larry
You can replace the condenser(s), (they're cheap), you will need a cap checker to check the cap. Preferably a checker that tests leakage, but value check should do.

Interesting terminology. grinning smiley

Do you mean distributor cap, or capacitor (same as condenser?).

Lots of Fluke (and other brand) DMMs have a capacitance scale. Ours should read .18 tp .23 MFD (180 to 230 nF if I converted correctly, as most Flukes read in nF).

Leakage is measured in ohms, with the higher the number the better, up to infinity. Between 1 megohm and infinity is good. Under 100k is suspect. Shorted (0 ohms) is very very bad!

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: oldqmguy ()
Date: May 14, 2019 08:17PM

"IF it was me" (eye rolling smiley) I would change the distributor cap, the distributor rotator, the points and capacitor, and the plug wires!

This is not expensive and will eliminate the Ignition system.

Just a thought!

Dale cool smiley

Dale E. Smiley CPBE
Life Member The Society of Broadcast Engineers
RETIRED Broadcast Engineer
CERTIFIED CORVAIR NUT
CORSA/Circle City Corvairs/Corvair Performance Group
Avon, Indiana
WB9SFF
1967 4-Door Monza PG!

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Date: May 14, 2019 08:20PM

It would be really cheap since I’ve replaced all but the capacitor, points and rotor. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out I appreciate all the input. I’ll keep you posted on my progress and hopeful success.

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: Chris Lampe ()
Date: May 14, 2019 10:38PM

thepolyphonicryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’ve replaced all but the capacitor, points and rotor.


The first thing I noticed in your original post was that you replaced the distributor cap, but not the rotor. I was always taught that the cap and rotor were changed as a pair, the internal contacts on the cap wear to the rotor over time, and if you were going to change one the other must be changed at the same time.

Chris
Rowlett, Tx
NTCA - North Texas Corvair Association
CORSA
'64 Monza 'vert

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: kenzen ()
Date: May 15, 2019 03:03AM

Is it possible you got some bad wires, or they aren't attaching properly?

kenzen
66 Monza Coupe 110/PG
Bel Air, MD

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: larry202br ()
Date: May 15, 2019 04:24AM

Frank DuVal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Larry
You can replace the condenser(s), (they're cheap), you will need a cap checker to check the cap. Preferably a checker that tests leakage, but value check should do.
>
> Interesting terminology. grinning smiley
>
> Do you mean distributor cap, or capacitor (same as condenser?).
>
> Lots of Fluke (and other brand) DMMs have a capacitance scale. Ours should read .18 tp .23 MFD (180 to 230 nF if I converted correctly, as most Flukes read in nF).
>
> Leakage is measured in ohms, with the higher the number the better, up to infinity. Between 1 megohm and infinity is good. Under 100k is suspect. Shorted (0 ohms) is very very bad!

The device in a automobile is commonly referred to as a condenser, but the testers are capacitance testers, or "cap checkers", in the vernacular. This has nothing to do with a distributor "cap". Most ohmmeters can only provide a go-no go "leakage" test. Leakage is measured in CURRENT, not ohms.

See leakage tests

1961 rampside with a 65 / 67 110 engine, car four speed.
1965 convertible
1966 Custom two door/four door

KC0SKX
Olathe, ks
HACOA

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: Peeeot ()
Date: May 15, 2019 05:23AM

You might want to test your ignition primary wiring when the engine is hot and you have lost spark. Verify correct voltage at the coil and correct resistance from distributor-to-coil wire terminal to ground through the points.

I chased a similar problem on a Ford for months with great frustration. After replacing literally everything but the primary wiring (which actually tested ok with a multimeter), out of desperation I replaced the primary wiring and never had another problem.

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Date: May 21, 2019 07:45AM

finally got it figured out!!!! i thought i had checked this but i guess i overlooked it. my point gap was non-existent. i reset my gap and all the problems went away. set my timing and idle and drove her to work today! on the plus side, i have a ton of new parts that i don't need to worry about replacing for a while AND i learned a lot about my car. thanks for all the help!

Ryan

Greenville, SC
Recent owner, Lifelong obsession
1964 Monza 4 speed - Daily Driver

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: May 21, 2019 07:48AM

Easy fix...excellent!!!

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 21, 2019 07:57AM

The "end" justifies the "Means" way to go!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: no spark on 1 and 5
Posted by: viewmaster ()
Date: May 21, 2019 01:03PM

Nice!!! Glad it all worked out.

-m



Mike
'65 '500' Sedan 110 PG
'65 Monza Sedan turbo'd 110 SU conversion
Fresno, CA

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