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Re: Old garage, new clutch
Posted by: alan_smithee ()
Date: May 13, 2019 05:44PM

SteveInMarietta Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No problem shifting or driving once the vehicle is rolling. Problem is only when first getting the vehicle engaged in first gear.
>
> Thanks Tim.
> Steve



So I experience this as well with my 62 4 spd. I dont get as much chatter with a little more gas as I let out the clutch. No problems in any other gear though. I had a similar thing with a 3 spd Mustang mated up to a 200 cid 6 cyl. Always just chalked it up to the gearing

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Re: Old garage, new clutch
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: May 14, 2019 11:59PM


So what is the first thing you remove/disconnect when dropping the powertrain (after disconnecting the battery)?

I like to begin down below


The axles get pulled - brakes still look'n good


Here's the early '61 style clutch linkage; was disconnected.



Speaking of the axles, one ancillary project is to replace a universal joint yoke since there is noticeable play between the splines on the left side. Hoping the wear was to the splines of the yoke not the axle, I had replacement yokes cleaned and painted and ready to go;


Alas, the replacement yoke was still loose on the left side, and I'll need to replace the axle. Actually, I'm wondering if the right side axle should be replaced also? The yoke slipped over the splines of the axle with only a slight tap with a hammer, and while I can detect no free play, I worried that the splines may fail.

How tightly should the splines of the yoke and axle mesh?
Steve

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Re: Old garage, new clutch
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: May 15, 2019 04:44AM

Several unanswered questions here.

The chattering on start up is an FC issue because of the clutch cable arrangement. I have had factory stock do the same thing. GM's cure was the bolt stop arrangement. There was a pretty hefty bracket bolted to the body horse collar and a botl was screwed into that with a clearance then set to something like 1/4". When the engine would start to move forward it would hit the stop and then not release the clutch.
What happens when this chatter starts is the engine moves forward as you start moving. This releases the clutch and the pressure is released and the engine moves back and the clutch re-engages and the engine moves forward and the clutch releases, repeat several times a second. There is your chatter.

what is the cure? Mounts are the first place to start, even the REAR mount. The GM stop or equivalent is the second and lastly MAYBE clutch parts.

As far as the splines go try other yokes first. You can also look at the clean yokes and tell how much wear is in them. You need to look at the very end where the axle splines do not engage. How much of a ledge is there in the spline tells you whether to even try the yoke. As far as the one the slipped on with just a tap will last a long time, I always use some grease or anti sieze on the splines.

How tight should the splines be? Not as tight as you think! The only reason they come off hard is because of rust. I don't ever recall hearing of a special tool to install the yokes on the assembly line so it would have to be a lubed light press assembled with a light tap.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Old garage, new clutch
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: May 15, 2019 05:02AM

Ken,
As usual, very informative. Thanks. Is the "bolt stop" to which you refer the same thing that served to prevent the transmission from popping out of gear?
Steve

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Re: Old garage, new clutch
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: May 16, 2019 08:26AM


Dropped the engine yesterday,

went very smoothly, and here it sits on the motorcycle jack I modified for this purpose. Since I do this alone, I remove as many impediments as reasonable, so I removed the starter so it would get hung up on rear control arm. I removed some fuel lines that extended beyond the engine shrouding, and the alternator, to minimize the clearance I would need to roll the engine out.

Today I set the powertrain on wooden supports and reversed the jack so that I can use it to support the diff/trans unit.

I have some custom wood blocks that allow the front end to rest flat.

Is there a secret to getting the powertrain perfectly level so that the input shaft easily pulls out of the clutch (rather than the transmission)? I usually need to fuss and jiggle to get it right:

But it actually wasn't too difficult, and I anxiously unscrewed the pressure plate, to find ...


an oil impregnated clutch disk - I suspect a leaky throw-out bear shaft seal.

At first I was concerned that the pressure plate and flywheel were worn:

They felt rough with circular grooves, but a little degreaser showed this to be gunk melded to the surfaces by the clutch disk. And with some cleaning, both look fine.


So, just maybe, this won't cost as much as I feared???

Steve

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Re: Old garage, new clutch
Posted by: alan_smithee ()
Date: May 16, 2019 10:54AM

SteveInMarietta Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dropped the engine yesterday,
>
> went very smoothly, and here it sits on the motorcycle jack I modified for this purpose. Since I do this alone, I remove as many impediments as reasonable, so I removed the starter so it would get hung up on rear control arm. I removed some fuel lines that extended beyond the engine shrouding, and the alternator, to minimize the clearance I would need to roll the engine out.
>
> Today I set the powertrain on wooden supports and reversed the jack so that I can use it to support the diff/trans unit.
>
> I have some custom wood blocks that allow the front end to rest flat.
>
> Is there a secret to getting the powertrain perfectly level so that the input shaft easily pulls out of the clutch (rather than the transmission)? I usually need to fuss and jiggle to get it right:
>
> But it actually wasn't too difficult, and I anxiously unscrewed the pressure plate, to find ...
>
>
> an oil impregnated clutch disk - I suspect a leaky throw-out bear shaft seal.
>
> At first I was concerned that the pressure plate and flywheel were worn:
>
> They felt rough with circular grooves, but a little degreaser showed this to be gunk melded to the surfaces by the clutch disk. And with some cleaning, both look fine.
>
>
> So, just maybe, this won't cost as much as I feared???
>
> Steve
>


keep posting updates. you are inspiring me!! also I am hoping thats my same problem

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Re: Old garage, new clutch
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 16, 2019 01:07PM

Use 6" guide pins in the threaded holes on the Bell housing.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Old garage, new clutch
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: May 16, 2019 02:44PM

Matt,
Aha!
Steve

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Re: Old garage, new clutch
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 16, 2019 05:14PM

smileys with beer

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Old garage, new clutch
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: May 17, 2019 11:42AM


Parts are ordered from Clarks. Just heard no new 9" welded clutch disks are in stock, so I had to get a rebuilt one.

I've determined the splines of the left side axle (not the yoke) are worn. Fortunately I have a couple extra axles with bearings -- have had them for over 30 years. I repacked the grease in each and choose the one with the smoothest rotation. Derusted with a wire wheel, primed and painted, it's ready to install.


The exhaust crossover tube had never been painted and was rusting pretty well. But it is salvageable and can be well protected in future with high temperature paint. This took some extensive derusting. So I put it in my electrolytic deruster for several days, then soaked it in POR rust removal solution over night, and then wire wheel cleaned it for about an hour - which brought it back to raw metal (granted rather pock-marked from rust removal).



I've used VHT Flame Proof paint on the exhaust manifolds and crossover pipe before and it has held up perfectly, so that's what I used again here.
Steve

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Re: Old garage, new clutch
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 17, 2019 03:58PM

I'd think about one of Clarks NEW FC pipes.... They rival a D & M Big single...

1-1/2" OD tube....merge collector.

End of this pipe was modified for use with the turbo

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2019 04:00PM by MattNall.

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Re: Old garage, new clutch
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: May 18, 2019 02:29AM


Yeah, I almost bought one; got one for the Firebrier. The poor design of the right side exhaust port of this pipe has always bothered me, probably generates some back pressure, but I decided I didn't want to spend another $150+.
Steve

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