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CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: Caveman_1960 ()
Date: May 09, 2019 11:43AM

The CPF owns a very special Corvair engine display. It has what might be the only set of prototype Corvair mechanical fuel injectors left in captivity. These rare parts were mounted on a dummy engine through the efforts of Larry Claypool in Chicago and Clark Hartzel here in Michigan. Several years ago the CPF agreed to loan this display to the Don Garlits Museum of Drag Racing in Ocala, Florida. Don himself agreed to have the proper documents signed and returned to the CPF at the corporate office in Lemont, Illinois. Unfortunately this never happened and now Don believes it is his engine and does not want to return it to the CPF so we can display it at "our" museum in Decatur, Illinois. Sad situation and I'm not sure what we can or want to do about it. If you want to see this rare bird I guess you'll have to trek down to sunny Florida and pay the admission fee to Don's little slice of drag racing heaven. Lesson: Be careful what you loan and don't believe everything you're told. Even by a legend...

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: May 09, 2019 12:01PM

Sounds like it's time for a little lawsuit. I know of two lawyers in Corvairland. Does the CPF have any loanership papers from GM? Maybe GM could be ask for its return and then re-donate to CPF.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: Mel ()
Date: May 09, 2019 12:21PM

heard years ago Don could be a real prick

Orangeville, Ontario. CANADA

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: stitch ()
Date: May 09, 2019 12:23PM

3 things I don't loan out.
Money
Vehicles
Power tools

Sometimes that's the best way to lose a friend! sad smiley

"If you can't fix it with a Hammer, you have an Electrical problem."
Stitch...
Schertz, Texas.
(Smallish town/burg 17 mi. NE of San Antonio)

'Ms Penny'
!967.. 4th body
8th off the line

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: Mel ()
Date: May 09, 2019 12:28PM

stitch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 3 things I don't loan out.
> Money
> Vehicles
> Power tools
>
> Sometimes that's the best way to lose a friend! sad smiley


GOOD advice smiling smiley

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: Caveman_1960 ()
Date: May 09, 2019 12:49PM

In response to Craig's comment; the Corvair FI engine display is not nor was it ever owned by GM. The FI parts were purchased by CORSA members many years ago. The engine part of the display and the labor to build it up was donated to the CPF (not GM) by myself, Larry Claypool and finally Clark Hartzel. Don's comment that "GM gave it to him" is totally without basis. He is confused?

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: May 09, 2019 01:05PM

How about a personal visit from some of us CPF members? Thinking he is a thief is almost unimaginable (but probably not surprising).

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: Mel ()
Date: May 09, 2019 01:23PM

Not really too hard to believe donny could be so GREEDY , sounds like he's losing it as well sad smiley

Orangeville, Ontario. CANADA

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: May 09, 2019 01:31PM

I have always been told, . . . . possession is 9/10 of the Law.
Now granted that advise did not come from a Lawyer, but I am sure that possession does hold a lot of weight.
With that being said, do any of the gentlemen responsible for assembling this engine have any documentation, assembly records, or Photos that show them building this project?
Are there any threads that are old enough to report the loaning of said engine?
Does Don Garlitts have any form of receipt(NO!) to back up his side of the story?
I guess the biggest question is, who holds the greatest amount of (and most convincing) EVIDENCE of ownership ? ? ?

.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza - 140 4-spd. driver

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: eddieb ()
Date: May 09, 2019 05:19PM

I've been following this saga with Caveman since before the Helen meet. Originally I was asked to pick this engine up and bring it to Helen. I'm about an hour south of Garlits place but then this "he said she said" got in the way.
I to have heard and in one instance saw that "Big Daddy" is not the superstar he thinks he is. He refused to sign autographs for some little kids standing in line a long time and just got up and left.
I told Caveman that if out of the blue he says come get this $#^*$ engine I would be glad to go get it and store it here at my place. At least it will be out of his hands.
Pete that offer still stands. EddieB Dade City,Fla

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: May 09, 2019 06:44PM

American Mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have always been told, . . . . possession is
> Now granted that advise did not come from a
> With that being said, do any of the gentlemen
> Are there any threads that are old enough to
> Does Don Garlitts have any form of receipt(NO!) to
> I guess the biggest question is, who holds the

Here's an article on that engine [www.corvairs.org]

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: edconnolly ()
Date: May 10, 2019 05:05PM

The system on display in Florida is not the system in the photograph of Jerry Thompson's RST Stinger.

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: scottymac ()
Date: May 10, 2019 09:28PM

Hemmings story from 2010 with f.i. engine. Is this the one?

[www.hemmings.com]

Couldn't find any pictures of the engine in Garlit's museum, went through all 248 pics.

[www.yelp.com]

There is a '65 coupe and a '69 convertible on display at the museum.

[www.yelp.com]

Scott
Danville, In.
'65 Corsa basket case
'66 Monza coupe

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: May 10, 2019 09:56PM

scottymac Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hemmings story from 2010 with f.i. engine. Is this the one?
>
> [www.hemmings.com]
>
> Couldn't find any pictures of the engine in Garlit's museum, went through all 248 pics.
>
> [www.yelp.com]
>
> There is a '65 coupe and a '69 convertible on display at the museum.
>
> [www.yelp.com]


The F.I. Corvair engine is in picture 18 , on the right side, and is easy to miss... look for the blue AC filter.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 10, 2019 10:23PM



MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: RCSmith ()
Date: May 10, 2019 10:25PM

Picture #55 also
[www.yelp.com]

Ray C. Smith
'66 Corsa


Bergen County ,NJ



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2019 10:28PM by RCSmith.

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: May 11, 2019 06:57AM

I was on the CORSA board when we first got the equipment from the original owner, who had it because he was part of the people who did GM's development and testing on it. That was back in 1974-5 era when we were offered it. It spent some time in the east and eventually I picked it up. Mark Ellis was instrumental in its transfer. I was later forced by the board, under John Jackson as prez, to turn it over, along with a lot of documents and blueprints. It then made its appearance (unknown to the membership) behind the registration table, still in boxes, at the convention. It ended up being hijacked and carted off to California by Jackson, and Bob Helt ended up with the paperwork. It's how Bob was able to write all the articles he did on the Corvair and its engine development and workings. The CORSA board (new people this time around) finally was able to force Jackson to turn it over to Larry Claypool. At least that's what I remember of it.

You may be able to find mention of it in the CC or Quarterly's of that era, for proof of ownership.

-Mark

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: john.jackson ()
Date: May 11, 2019 01:40PM

I received a PM from a CC member asking me about the above post. Here is what I recall.

"Think" this was when Mark was leaving the board, it was the general feeling of the board members that custody of museum items should remain with current board members. I do not recall what convention this was. Might have been 76 or 78?

So with the approval of the board of directors, I took custody of a 3 inch black binder filled with dyno test and other technical papers. But because I was flying and shipping charges would be significant, another board member took custody of the box of "F.I." parts, also with full approval of the board.

During my custody time, the information was freely shared with Herb Berkman and Fred Johnson, as well as others I do not recall.

Near the end of my second term on the board, I turned over the black 3 inch binder and it's contents to board member Bob Helt who was also our main Tech Guy even back then. Again, this was with the full approval of the board.

As Mark said, the technical information in this black binder was the source of much of Bob Helt's articles for CORSA over the years.

I can not speak to what happened to the "F.I." parts after that, I simply have no knowledge, directly or indirectly. But "suspect" it was just a case of a former board member taking some time to turn over the "F.I." parts to another current board member. Nothing with bad intent at all.

Mark was very passionate about a Corvair museum even back in the early/mid 70's. I never imagined it would ever come true in a million years.

Imagine my surprise when I got back into Corvairs several years ago to find a Corvair museum becoming a reality. I took a trip to see the museum before the Grand Opening and I was totally impressed!

Congratulations to all the former members and current members who made the Corvair Preservation Possible.

John Jackson

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: irfgt ()
Date: May 12, 2019 03:23AM

Why would it have been loaned to a private museum? Not too smart without proper documentation and a loaner fee since this is a for profit museum. A great museum by the way.

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Re: CPF's Prototype Corvair FI engine display at the Garlits Museum
Posted by: Caveman_1960 ()
Date: May 12, 2019 04:03AM

Like the Corvair Preservation Foundation, the Don Garlits Museum of Drag Racing is a not-for-profit 501.c3 corporation. That means it can accept donations and offer a tax advantage in return. Non profit status is not easy to obtain and there are requirements that need to be met to maintain that status. Education is a part of this. You could say that we (CPF) have a museum so the public can go and see what a Corvair looks like. That's education, right? Same with Don's museum.

As for the "proper documentation" comment that is at the crux of our current situation. The opportunity to transport the loaned engine display made itself available and Don Garlits agreed verbally and promised to have the documents returned to us signed. When he did not do this and he had the engine we were left "holding the bag". Perhaps if CPF staff pushed Don sooner we could have prevented this. Hard to say now.

The CPF is funded by members of CORSA and anyone else who cares about the history and preservation of the Corvair automobile. We don't own a museum and currently have an agreement with the Chevrolet Hall of Fame Museum in Decatur, Illinois to display cars and artifacts to "educate" the public. On the other hand the Garlits Drag Racing Museum is well funded well into the multi-millions. Don himself is a multi-millionaire. He doesn't need our little Corvair engine to make ends meet. Too bad he won't keep his word and admit this was a loan and not a donation.

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