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Special cylinder head engineering drawing
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: May 04, 2019 01:39PM

I have a few Corvair engineering drawings that have not yet been scanned, most of which are in poor shape and would be difficult to restore. However, one, a "Special" cylinder head drawing by Bill Thomas titled "CR-0001", is in better shape but quite large (approx. 10' x 3').



Is anyone familiar with Bill Thomas' work? Is this drawing worth the effort to digitize?


Steve




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2019 07:49PM by MattNall.

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 04, 2019 01:50PM

BT is famous!! First GM authorized Mod shop...

[www.google.com]

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: May 04, 2019 01:58PM

Yes

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: May 04, 2019 02:49PM

Check out the old telephone numbers tongue sticking out smiley

Sy-5-9711 = "Sycamore" 5-9711 = 795-9711 (work number)

Hi-6-1584 = Hillcrest 6-1584 = 446-1584 (home number)

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: Paulsgt ()
Date: May 04, 2019 03:39PM

I'll bet Tom Knobloch (sp?) would be interested.

Enjoy the Corvair!

Paul Sergeant
CORSA Central Division Director / CORSA Treasurer
Lee's Summit, MO
CORSA since 1975
Member – HACOA, Corvair Minnesota, CORSA, Little Indians, POCI




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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: john.jackson ()
Date: May 04, 2019 05:08PM

Wow! Look at the date on that drawing July 19, 1960 What a neat find!

Suspect this is a GM factory drawing supplied for Bill Thomas.

His shop was in Pasadena in the early 1960's. Sycamore phone numbers were assigned to Pasadena, way back when. The HI 6-1584 number was a Hilltop exchange, also assigned to Pasadena.

Source: [www.laalmanac.com]

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: May 04, 2019 07:22PM

I do not believe that this is a GM drawing - it lacks all the standard GM markings, but rather is a modified head drawn by Bill.
Steve

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 04, 2019 07:25PM

Makes it more worthwhile!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: john.jackson ()
Date: May 04, 2019 08:57PM

So Steve,

What is shown on the drawing? Just a bare head casting or more details like valve angles etc.???

Back in the day, Thomas sold DIY instructions how to modify small valve heads into big valve heads. This was in addition to his shop actually also selling the finished conversion heads.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2019 08:59PM by john.jackson.

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: May 05, 2019 04:20AM

Of all the prints this one would be worth digitizing.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: tknobby ()
Date: May 05, 2019 05:29AM

I'm waiting...

Tom Knoblauch
San Antonio, TX
<a href="[www.americanflat6.com">AmericanFlat6.com<];

'64 Spyder Vert Big Valve heads, EFI, Custom roller cam, front disc brakes on 2" dropped spindles
'65 Vert 95 EFI 4spd
'65 Monza Coupe 95 w/ Thomas Tribute 110 heads, 2 2bbl 40MM Webers, 140 exh tubes, 110 exh logs, PG w/ high stall Converter, 2" dropped spindles w/ 6 piston Wilwood calipers
'66 Monza Coupe 3.0L EFI 4spd
'68 Monza Coupe 140 3.0L EFI Slide Throttle 4spd
'63 Rampy 80hp w/ 102 Tribute 2 carb heads 4 spd, disc brakes on 2" dropped spindles

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: tknobby ()
Date: May 05, 2019 05:38AM

The interesting thing is the date. 1960.

Bill Thomas Race Cars was tied in with Chevy prior to this as he was a high end machinist and modified/drove Corvette race cars. His #361 red 1960 model Corvair was used to take his son Bill Thomas Jr. to school before it became the race car we now know. That car was sold to Doug Roe who fit the turbo and snow plow nose thus becoming the Doug Roe race car.

Tom Knoblauch
San Antonio, TX
<a href="[www.americanflat6.com">AmericanFlat6.com<];

'64 Spyder Vert Big Valve heads, EFI, Custom roller cam, front disc brakes on 2" dropped spindles
'65 Vert 95 EFI 4spd
'65 Monza Coupe 95 w/ Thomas Tribute 110 heads, 2 2bbl 40MM Webers, 140 exh tubes, 110 exh logs, PG w/ high stall Converter, 2" dropped spindles w/ 6 piston Wilwood calipers
'66 Monza Coupe 3.0L EFI 4spd
'68 Monza Coupe 140 3.0L EFI Slide Throttle 4spd
'63 Rampy 80hp w/ 102 Tribute 2 carb heads 4 spd, disc brakes on 2" dropped spindles

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: May 05, 2019 06:25AM

While Bill Thomas seems to get most of the credit,it was Mike Jones who did most of the development work on the car. Mike

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: May 05, 2019 06:45AM

OK Engine Gurus, here's a snippet from the drawing, which consists of numerous different views and sections. What do you see that's different?

btw: For anyone interested, already digitized are the CIDCO drawings of the differential.

Steve



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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: dryenko ()
Date: May 05, 2019 07:08AM

I find it interesting that Bill Thomas [ and GM ] thought big exhaust valves were needed to balance the flow.
GM must have had flow benches, even back then.

Bob C aka Dryenko
Dobson, NC 27017

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: ral1963 ()
Date: May 05, 2019 09:26AM

I'll have to find the exact article, but I recall while reading up on the Rochester Fuel injection (prior to the 164cu engine and 140hp) for the Corvair, GM compared high engines based on the a turbo unit, a Rochester FI unit, and a 4 carb motor with big valve heads by Bill Thomas.

I believe this was in 1962 as they were developing what was going to be the "High Performance" engine for the 65 re-design of the Corvair.

The decision to go with the 140hp engine as the standard engine and the 180 turbo as the "performance" engine in the Corsa came about based on cost and reliability over the FI engine.

This was all from the performance gains shown from the Bill Thomas headwork to allow the heads to breathe enough to reap the benefit from additional carburation.

It would appear that we can Thank Bill Thomas for our "favorite" engine in our little Corvairs...

Rick Loving
Corvair historian & chronicler of useless facts
CORSA
Performance Corvair Group
Chicagoland Corvair Enthusiasts

RAL1963@COMCAST.NET
Just south of Chicago IL

Current Ride
63 Sprint Vert 140/4sp

Past Rides
60 700 Sedan 80hp PG
63 Monza Vert 102hp 4 spd
63 Monza Coupe 140hp 4 spd
63 700 Sedan 80hp 3 spd
64 Monza Vert 110hp 4 spd
64 Monza Coupe 95hp 3 spd
64 Monza Sedan 110hp PG
65 500 Coupe 95hp 4 spd
65 Monza Coupe 110hp PG
65 Corsa Coupe 140hp 4 spd
66 Turbo Coupe 180/4sp
68 Monza Vert 140hp 3 spd

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Date: May 05, 2019 09:43AM

Individual High-Flow cylinder heads for our Corvairs!
What's not to like? Get 'R Dun!


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 Corsa 140 Coupe ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Convertible Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza Spyder Convertible ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 CoupeEvening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: May 05, 2019 10:35AM

The problem with individual heads for each cylinder was that they found that they "rang like a bell", in other words, were far too noisy to use. By making all three as one head, the noise problem was solved. So anyone trying to make individual heads for the Corvair would be taking a step backwards, and definitely NOT an improvement.

-Mark

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Date: May 05, 2019 10:41AM

NVH* is a consideration for production vehicles, no doubt.
Anyone looking to extract maximum performance from their pushrod Corvair engine is not worried much by how "noisy" they are while driving down the interstate at 60 mph.
You wouldn't b able to hear it above the exhaust and intake noise, if done right!

smileys with beer

*Noise Vibration Harshness = production considerations to make average folks happy


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 Corsa 140 Coupe ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Convertible Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza Spyder Convertible ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 CoupeEvening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2019 10:46AM by 1966-Corsa-GT-180.

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Re: Special cylinder head engineeringdrawing
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: May 05, 2019 11:06AM

I'm well aware of that, Dan. I was just saying.....

Now if you want ultimate performance, try this one: [bangshift.com]

-Mark

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