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Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: Peeeot ()
Date: April 24, 2019 06:17PM

I read the thread about using choke thermostats to replace the stock bellows-type thermostat and it inspired me to try adapting a conventional wax-pellet type thermostat for our application. I like the idea of knowing exactly when the exhaust doors would start to open and being able to more closely approximate the stock operating temperature than the choke thermostats seem to be able to do.

I used a thermostat from a 1998 Ford Escort ZX2. I enlarged the opening on the stock thermostat bracket to accommodate the thicker copper tube that extends out as this unit expands. I used tin snips to flatten the flanges at top and bottom for a good fit under the bracket and to fix the orientation. I drilled a few holes in the flanges to secure mounting straps and it all came together pretty easily. The full range of motion of the thermostat seems perfectly suited to the rod action needed for the exhaust doors. So far, I have checked range of motion by hand-actuating the rod with everything assembled. I have also used a torch to warm up the thermostat and verify I get full range of motion that way. But the real test will have to wait till the engine is back in the car.

I took some pictures and am trying to figure out how to get them below 500KB so I can share.

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: Peeeot ()
Date: April 24, 2019 06:29PM

Here they are!

Attachments:


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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: thumper477 ()
Date: April 24, 2019 07:27PM

I like!

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: larry202br ()
Date: April 24, 2019 07:51PM

Slick!

1961 rampside with a 65 / 67 110 engine, car four speed.
1965 convertible
1966 Custom two door/four door

KC0SKX
Olathe, ks
HACOA

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: FLSteve ()
Date: April 24, 2019 08:31PM

Wow great idea!

Who would have thought all those Ebay sellers knew for year and never told us where the thermostat went. Now we know!

Ok, all joking aside this is a great idea and going to be very helpful for the vairs running is the cold!

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: Goop Of Oil ()
Date: April 24, 2019 08:46PM

Quote

FLSteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow great idea!
>
> Who would have thought all those Ebay sellers knew
> for year and never told us where the thermostat
> went. Now we know!
>
> Ok, all joking aside this is a great idea and
> going to be very helpful for the vairs running is
> the cold!
More joking.
What is cool, is that if the engine gets flooded, it will Still work!!
Nice. hot smiley

Mark Holmlund

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: RKF ()
Date: April 25, 2019 04:19AM

Please let us know the end results. If this is successful, you will have solved a problem for many of us.

Knoxville TN

1962 Corvair Rampside
1963 Corvair Spyder Convertible (project)
1966 Corvair Monza Convertible
1918 Overland Touring Car


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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: April 25, 2019 05:04AM

With a little refinement you could market a kit and sell the heck out of them...great idea!!!

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Date: April 25, 2019 05:38AM

FLSteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow great idea!
>
> Who would have thought all those Ebay sellers knew
> for year and never told us where the thermostat
> went. Now we know!
>
> Ok, all joking aside this is a great idea and
> going to be very helpful for the vairs running is
> the cold!

lol very true.

1961 Corvair 700 Sedan - 3sp - Gasoline Heat - Lowered a bit - Rust in Progress
I live my life 19.5 seconds at a time.


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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: Kyle_in_Mich ()
Date: April 25, 2019 06:04AM

Interesting. I was under the impression that water-cooled engine thermostats don't have much travel from the closed position to the open position.

Curious to see how this works.

CORSA Member
Traverse City,MI
Daily driver- Bicycle
Fun driver/project- 65 Corsa 140/4 speed

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: stitch ()
Date: April 25, 2019 07:50AM

Actually, the alcohol filled ones don't have much travel either between closed and open...
Good work Peeeot! Keep us in the loop!..thumbs up

"If you can't fix it with a Hammer, you have an Electrical problem."
Stitch...
Schertz, Texas.
(Smallish town/burg 17 mi. NE of San Antonio)

'Ms Penny'
!967.. 4th body
8th off the line

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: corventure Dave ()
Date: April 25, 2019 08:04AM

Love the creativity and thinking out of the box modification.
Yes... Keep us informed on how it works out.thumbs up

Corventure Dave

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 25, 2019 08:08AM

You never know on these things until you try them

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: larry202br ()
Date: April 25, 2019 08:31AM

It's hard to tell from the picture, but it appears the setup is fail-safe as well!

My main concern is, will the thermostat pellet react to air temperature the same as water temperature? A quick spray with a heat gun and a laser thermometer would tell the tale.

1961 rampside with a 65 / 67 110 engine, car four speed.
1965 convertible
1966 Custom two door/four door

KC0SKX
Olathe, ks
HACOA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2019 08:34AM by larry202br.

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: April 25, 2019 09:57AM

I always figured the higher exit air temps of a Corvair engine might fail wax pellet thermostats intended for use in water-cooled cars. I never tried it because I don't use thermostats in this desert climate. Let us know how it goes!

Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
65 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4 w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza Convertible 110/4
66 Monza Convertible 140/4
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5



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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: larry202br ()
Date: April 25, 2019 12:55PM

azdave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I always figured the higher exit air temps of a
> Corvair engine might fail wax pellet thermostats
> intended for use in water-cooled cars. I never
> tried it because I don't use thermostats in this
> desert climate. Let us know how it goes!


Good thought. The heat gun test can prove that out as well.

1961 rampside with a 65 / 67 110 engine, car four speed.
1965 convertible
1966 Custom two door/four door

KC0SKX
Olathe, ks
HACOA

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 25, 2019 01:19PM

Quote
peoot wrote;
I have also used a torch to warm up the thermostat and verify I get full range of motion that way.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: April 25, 2019 09:20PM

It will make the heater not work in the winter or severely hinder the output. A 195 degree thermostat will open the doors very quickly. Way before the engine is warmed up. Think about all the heat coming off the exhaust logs. I also agree that it will probably fail quickly exposed to that much heat.

Joel
Northlake, TX
4 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: Peeeot ()
Date: April 26, 2019 10:49AM

Time will tell, but I do not think the thermostat will suffer in this environment nor adversely affect the heater. The stock unit is supposed to open at 220 degrees, and I have the impression it opens fully when it opens. This unit will begin to actuate the doors at 195, but is fully open around 220. In cold weather, if the ambient environment is not over 195, it will not open, and if it is less than 220, it will be partially open proportional to the temperature. The thermostat is shrouded from the direct heat of the manifolds by a baffle and a cushion of moving air provided by the fan (same as the stocker). The thermostat itself shouldn’t care whether it’s surrounded by air or water. It just expands when it gets hot enough.

Now, if cooling air on the underside of the engine is hot enough to maintain an environment of, say, 275, I could imagine that may shorten the life of the thermostat. But maybe not.

The one concern I have is that it is NOT fail-safe. If it craps out, the doors will stay shut. So, since the temp sensor is only on one side, the driver side t-stat could fail on the road and I wouldn’t know. But I will be keeping a close eye on them once installed.

I’m planning to have the engine in the car this weekend so stay tuned.

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Re: Replace bellows thermostat with a water-type
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: April 26, 2019 03:10PM

Maybe a different thermostat application to hold up to heat better?

Typically old school Mark IV Big Block Chevy 454 V8's run really hot.

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