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Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: corvairtherapy ()
Date: April 10, 2019 08:05AM

I am resurrecting a 1964 Spyder that sat in a garage for 20-30 years. I got the car running nicely but when I shut it off and restarted it, it blows clouds and clouds of smoke out the tailpipe and a lot of oil also out the tailpipe. I have had the turbo apart three times and can find nothing wrong. The carbon seal is good, all new gaskets and o-rings and it has been cleaned thoroughly. I am at a loos as to what the h*** is going on here. Any suggestions from the pros would be greatly appreciated. One thought I had is the oil pressure relief valve in the rear housing is stuck closed. Would that increase the oil pressure to the turbo overpowering the carbon seal? Any thing else that could over power the seal. I need this car to be gone, it's been a long road and I'm over it. Help!

Thanks, Dave.. .

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: April 10, 2019 08:08AM

Is the turbo oil return plugged up, and forcing the oil pass the seal?

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-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza - 140 4-spd. driver

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 10, 2019 08:15AM

I'm with A-Mel.... pull the pass. valve cover and start the engine.





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: April 10, 2019 08:30AM

Before anything just remove the drain tube
from the turbo and head and check the rubber
connector hose to ensure it hasn't either
plugged or worse; someone used a rubber
that isn't oil resistant and the inner hose
has just swelled shut. You can easily look
down the metal tube into the head with a
flashlight to see if it is clear.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: thewolfe ()
Date: April 10, 2019 08:36AM

Do you have oil on the intake side of the turbo or the exhaust side of the turbo? If it's on the intake side I would say carbon seal or maybe you just have a lot of blowby. Have you done a compression test? If the oil is only on the exhaust side of the turbo then the turbine ring seal could be bad or there could be damage to the housing where the seal rides. It's easy to gouge that housing when reassembling the turbo if the seal isn't compressed properly before inserting the turbine.

Nate Wolfe
Portland OR
65 Corsa 180

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: April 10, 2019 02:21PM

My Spyder did the same thing, until I had the engine rebuilt. Turned out that the oil rings were completely worn out.

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Woodstock CT... Located on the Connecticut / Massachusetts border, approximately 6 miles from the center of Southbridge MA. About 45 minutes from Hartford CT. 1 1/2 hours West of Boston MA. Woodstock CT to Los Angeles CA 2,937.1 miles. 1 Mile as the crow flies to Big Bird's nest.

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: corvairtherapy ()
Date: April 11, 2019 05:57AM

Hi Steve, the hose is new, the drain is clear BUT, I haven't checked the hole in the head(the cars, not mine). I'll give that a try and let you know the results.
Thanks, Dave.. .

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: corvairtherapy ()
Date: April 11, 2019 05:59AM

Mel I don't think so but I am going to check the hole in the head per Steve Goodmans suggestion I'll let you know.
Thanks, Dave.. .

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: corvairtherapy ()
Date: April 11, 2019 06:02AM

Nate, The oil is on the exhaust side, hence the oil dripping out of the muffler and exhaust. As stated, the car ran fine for a while. I shut it off and when I next started it the huge clouds of smoke and oil drips began.
Thanks for your input, Dave.. .

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: roger65180 ()
Date: April 11, 2019 03:17PM

I once had a mazda 1995 626 2 liter 200,000 miles comp was good. on cold start up that car smoked so much it could engulf the tree that i park by 2 miles down the roar the smoke would clear up to a drivable level . the oil control rings were worn but not the comp rings I honed it gave it a new set of rings and the smoke was gone and no oil consumption

Roger R
Madison Wi
62 ct pg turbo
65intercooled 180 4sp,autocrosser
62 Rampy

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: April 11, 2019 04:43PM

From what you have said There either is or was a problem on the exhaust. My suggestion at this point is to pull the outlet pipe off at the turbo. Is it really an oily/sooty mess right there in the exhaust housing? If not then run the engine hard and you will probably take about 5 miles to clean the exhaust. Slow down some and then make some boost it will probably smoke again as you heat up the exhaust.

Then just to be certain, after it's cooled down pull the outlet pipe one more time to check the turbine and make sure it's not oily. If it is you have a turbo issue that you are not seeing.

With that there are a couple of turbo people here and I'm one of them. I will say that my build is NOT stock but you won't know that. I do a few extra things and the turbo works just a little better than stock.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 11, 2019 06:46PM

As Ken sez....

My '66 was a smoker....no oil though...

Took off the Muffler and ran it 10 miles down a 2 lane highway, out in the Boonies, and it finally stopped.. and hasn't smoked since!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: corvairtherapy ()
Date: April 12, 2019 11:44AM

As I stated there is oil leaking from the exhaust pipe and the muffler. I can't run the engine hard because the car is not registered for the road. And also as I said it ran clean for about 20 minutes until I shut it off to do something else and when I restarted it there was tremendous clouds of smoke and oil coming out of the pipe. Any other thoughts?
Dave.. .

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 12, 2019 11:59AM

Pull the valve cover and check for flow!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: corvairtherapy ()
Date: April 15, 2019 03:29PM

I had an opening in the shop today so I got a chance to check the oil drain from the turbo. I removed the drain tube and verified it was clear then checked the hole into the head. Also clear, so it is not a plugged drain. Any other ideas or suggestions? No one commented on a stuck pressure relief valve in the rear housing. Is that even a remote possibility?
Thanks Steve and Matt.
Dave.. .

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: April 15, 2019 04:13PM

Sorry Dave but typically a stuck oil pressure
relief valve blows the oil filter seal long
before pressure would bother the turbo.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: April 15, 2019 05:36PM

Also what about checking if there is oil at the outlet of the exhaust housing? Without knowing that you are just guessing. You can easily slide the outlet pipe far enough to see in there and maybe even get a finger in there. Is it dry sooty or oily/gooey?

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: April 15, 2019 07:19PM

It might be helpful to check the plug colors- if the plugs are sooty black then it probably is not the turbo, or if it still is it is leaking from the intake side. Is there copious amounts of oil in the cross over manifold?

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: Boosted60 ()
Date: April 16, 2019 01:51PM

id also make sure that the pcv system is not blocked. might be sucking it up past the oil rings. though youd normally push oil out the dipstick tube first, you never know.

Shant Yazijian
Pasadena, California

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Re: Need help from the turbo EXPERTS
Posted by: corvairtherapy ()
Date: April 17, 2019 05:15PM

Thanks Steve, good to know.
Dave.. .

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