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Stuck solenoid
Posted by: fred bagnall ()
Date: February 01, 2019 01:11PM

I went out to my trusty Greenbrier this morning and went to start the engine. The ignition switch started to smoke and the starter stayed engaged. I quickly shut off the engine and went and disconnected the battery. I shoehorned myself below the dash and removed the ignition switch. I had been having troubles with the mechanical part of the switch lately ,so I had recently given it a good dose of powdered graphite to help with key removal. I took the switch apart and found one of the contacts a little charred . I cleaned up the contacts inside the switch and reassembled with a little bit of die electric grease. I started the engine and the switch worked as it should with no smoking but the starter still stayed engaged. So, my question is did I fry the solenoid or do I still have something funky going on with my ignition switch.sad smiley


64 Greenbrier std -110, 4spd,barn find on the road again after 46 year hiatus.
66 Turbo Corsa, 180hp,posi-trac, quick steering HD suspension,AM-FM-multiplex,soft-Ray glass all around
Floridian currently residing in Nor Cal

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 01, 2019 01:14PM

To find out.... unplug the 2 wire Solenoid connector in the engine compartment.


Test from there.... 12v + to the purple wire....





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: gwrench ()
Date: February 01, 2019 05:37PM

BTW, graphite is a great electrical conductor....

Dale
Loveland, Colorado

1965 Monza 140 barn find

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: February 01, 2019 06:40PM

The graphite usually does not migrate into the switch area. But....

Was there any graphite inside the switch?

Do Matt's test. Let us know what happens.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: fred bagnall ()
Date: February 01, 2019 06:51PM

Are you saying apply 12 volts to the purple wire? Check to see if there is 12 volts at the purple wire. With the ignition off there was no power at the purple wire. With the ignition on ,but not in the start position still no power at the purple wire. Of course there's power at the purple wire when in the crank position. Assistant cranking or putting the ignition switch in the start position and releasing the switch- engine starts but starter is still spinning. Immediately shut engine off.


64 Greenbrier std -110, 4spd,barn find on the road again after 46 year hiatus.
66 Turbo Corsa, 180hp,posi-trac, quick steering HD suspension,AM-FM-multiplex,soft-Ray glass all around
Floridian currently residing in Nor Cal

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 01, 2019 07:07PM

JUmp 12volts + from battery to Purple wire that goes to starter's solenoid after unplugging the two..

This will isolate the problem.





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: February 01, 2019 07:13PM

Everything sounds right with the voltage switching. Did you check to see if the purple wire had 12V on it when the starter was stuck on?
It is possible that the plunger in the solenoid is gunked up or the return spring broke. It does seem unlikely that you would have a switch/wiring issue at the same time the starter broke.
Don't forget that the starter will stay energized if the plunger doesn't return no matter what the purple wire is doing.

Joel
Northlake, TX
4 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: fred bagnall ()
Date: February 01, 2019 07:32PM

I will jump 12 volts to the purple wire after I have disconnected the plug in the engine compartmen ,like you said Matt. I had thought about the possibility of there being 12 volts at the purple wire even though the engine had already started. I lost the help of my assistant earlier today (had to go to work),and I didn't want to have the starter engaged for too long while I run back and forth troubleshooting alone. It's dark and raining right now, so it looks like I will be trying both suggestions tomorrow when my assistant is available. Thanks Joel and Matt ,I will post my results when I continue in the AM. Guidance is much appreciated.
Fredsmiling smileythumbs up


64 Greenbrier std -110, 4spd,barn find on the road again after 46 year hiatus.
66 Turbo Corsa, 180hp,posi-trac, quick steering HD suspension,AM-FM-multiplex,soft-Ray glass all around
Floridian currently residing in Nor Cal

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: Brizo ()
Date: February 02, 2019 08:13AM

Fred, Its sounds to me like the starter drive is sticking on the shaft due to dried grease or rust and its holding the solenoid switch closed.

Dan Brizendine,
'64 8door Greenbrier 140 PG. "In beautiful Wanamaker Indiana...with one stop light and 5 pizza shops"

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: fred bagnall ()
Date: February 02, 2019 11:39AM

I had a few minutes and went out and did the first troubleshooting suggestion from Matt. I disconnected the starter harness in the engine compartment ,and applied 12 volts directly to the purple wire. Ignition was off, nothing happened. Correct me I'm wrong, does this now isolate it to the ignition switch? Now I am leaning towards the ignition switch and not the solenoid.


64 Greenbrier std -110, 4spd,barn find on the road again after 46 year hiatus.
66 Turbo Corsa, 180hp,posi-trac, quick steering HD suspension,AM-FM-multiplex,soft-Ray glass all around
Floridian currently residing in Nor Cal

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 02, 2019 11:57AM

Engine should've CRANKED... and started / ran until you pulled the 12v + off..

Start Bypass wire goes from Solenoid "R" [ relay ] post to Coil's +

YES... you eliminated the Ign. Sw. from the system.





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: February 02, 2019 04:28PM

+12 volts to the purple wire of the two wires going through the firewall to the starter. Not to the purple wire going into the engine harness.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: fred bagnall ()
Date: February 02, 2019 04:54PM

I just returned home and saw this post. The way I did it was to attach a 12 volt power source to the starter harness purple wire not the wire going to the body harness. I didn't have the ignition switch on mind you , I just applied 12 volts to the purple wire going to the starter. As I said before nothing happening with 12 volts being applied to the purple wire going to the starter.


64 Greenbrier std -110, 4spd,barn find on the road again after 46 year hiatus.
66 Turbo Corsa, 180hp,posi-trac, quick steering HD suspension,AM-FM-multiplex,soft-Ray glass all around
Floridian currently residing in Nor Cal

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: February 02, 2019 04:57PM

Are the wires on the starter properly? Putting powers on the purple wire should have energized the starter. I wonder what would happen if you put power on the yellow. If it cranks, definitely wired wrong.

Al Lane
Ellabell, GA 31308

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1966 Monza More Door 110 hp, PG
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ hp PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: fred bagnall ()
Date: February 02, 2019 05:06PM

Wired % 100 correctly ,been driven cross country from Florida to California three times there and back never had an issue until yesterday when this new phenomenon started. I wish it would have been that simple, but it looks like I will be crawling under to do a little further investigation.sad smiley


64 Greenbrier std -110, 4spd,barn find on the road again after 46 year hiatus.
66 Turbo Corsa, 180hp,posi-trac, quick steering HD suspension,AM-FM-multiplex,soft-Ray glass all around
Floridian currently residing in Nor Cal

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: Matt E. ()
Date: February 02, 2019 05:56PM

Hi Fred,
I have several used starters in storage if you find you need one. I'm only 40 minutes away from Olympia and I'd be happy to bring you a spare.
Matt

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: fred bagnall ()
Date: February 02, 2019 06:38PM

That is very generous of you Matt. According to the weather ,it is supposed to rain tomorrow with a chance of snow showers possible. I am going to try tomorrow to crawl under and remove the starter weather permitting. Once I have it removed I will be testing it to see what the problem is. If the need arises I might have to take you up on your offer. However,I want to be sure before I enlist anyone's help. Especially if it is going to be hazardous driving conditions. If you like I can pm my phone # and vice versa and go from there ,depending what it is that I find. Definitely a very cool gesture on your part.
Fred


64 Greenbrier std -110, 4spd,barn find on the road again after 46 year hiatus.
66 Turbo Corsa, 180hp,posi-trac, quick steering HD suspension,AM-FM-multiplex,soft-Ray glass all around
Floridian currently residing in Nor Cal

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: February 02, 2019 07:12PM

fred bagnall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is very generous of you Matt. According to
> the weather ,it is supposed to rain tomorrow with
> a chance of snow showers possible. I am going to
> try tomorrow to crawl under and remove the starter
> weather permitting. Once I have it removed I will
> be testing it to see what the problem is. If the
> need arises I might have to take you up on your
> offer. However,I want to be sure before I enlist
> anyone's help. Especially if it is going to be
> hazardous driving conditions. If you like I can pm
> my phone # and vice versa and go from there
> ,depending what it is that I find. Definitely a
> very cool gesture on your part.
> Fred


I have never personally met either one of you guys, BUT ITS WHY I LOVE THIS GROUP!!!!!

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: fred bagnall ()
Date: February 02, 2019 07:22PM

I have never personally met either one of you guys, BUT ITS WHY I LOVE THIS GROUP!!!!

MY sentiments exactly , much love for my Corvair brethren !!!!!thumbs upthumbs up


64 Greenbrier std -110, 4spd,barn find on the road again after 46 year hiatus.
66 Turbo Corsa, 180hp,posi-trac, quick steering HD suspension,AM-FM-multiplex,soft-Ray glass all around
Floridian currently residing in Nor Cal

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Re: Stuck solenoid
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: February 02, 2019 08:40PM

fred bagnall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is very generous of you Matt. According to
> the weather ,it is supposed to rain tomorrow with
> a chance of snow showers possible. I am going to
> try tomorrow to crawl under and remove the starter
> weather permitting.
Once I have it removed I will
> be testing it to see what the problem is. If the
> need arises I might have to take you up on your
> offer. However,I want to be sure before I enlist
> anyone's help. Especially if it is going to be
> hazardous driving conditions. If you like I can pm
> my phone # and vice versa and go from there
> ,depending what it is that I find. Definitely a
> very cool gesture on your part.
> Fred

Hi Fred,
I am not familiar with FC's, but I know that on the LM's, it is much easier to change the starter by raising the rear driver's side, remove the rear tire, and just reach in through the rear wheel-well.
NO reaching UP, and NO dust, dirt, or other junk falls into your face and eyes!
Maybe someone with an FC will chime in on this, but that is how I do my LM's.

.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza - 140 4-spd. driver

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