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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: January 19, 2019 09:29PM

If we leave well enough alone then we'll never have any more power than they came with. I doubt anyone would consider aluminum cylinders if they weren't looking for more performance.

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 19, 2019 09:34PM

I thought Aluminum was for lighter weight?

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: john.jackson ()
Date: January 19, 2019 10:10PM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought Aluminum was for lighter weight?

Yes, and I thought the object was better cooling.

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: January 19, 2019 10:15PM

Have any of you goggled Nikasil cylinders? Lots of cars and Motorcycles have had problems with them, High Sulfur fuels destroy the coatings and they chip off, BMW was replacing complete engines with steel lined cylinders as a warranted item due to the problems with the Nikasil, I have had personal experiences with Nikasil cylinders in my Race bikes back in the 80's-90's when Honda thought it would be a good idea to plate the CR 125-250 cylinders with Nikasil, I and others had problems with the coating chipping off at the base of the cylinder and at the ports, one chip at a open port 2 stroke cylinder and a ring would catch and bye bye engine, Us low budget privateers hated the Nikasil, you could no longer bore your cylinder for the next size piston, you would need to buy another std bore complete cylinder for $$$, Not what we racers wanted in those days, IMO running a Nikasil cylinder on a Corvair engine is just asking for problems.







1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)

-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: January 19, 2019 10:19PM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If we leave well enough alone then we'll never
> have any more power than they came with. I doubt
> anyone would consider aluminum cylinders if they
> weren't looking for more performance.

Nothing like taking just a fragment of what is said and running with it. eye rolling smiley
What ever!

.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza - 140 4-spd. driver
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dualy, approaching 400K
17'Terry

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: January 20, 2019 06:26AM

If properly sized pistons are used im sure the Nikasil Cylinders would work fine.
But its hard to beat a new full fin Cylinder with forged pistons from Clarks for half the price that you know will work. Mike

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: January 20, 2019 06:48AM

The cooling of the cylinders is not the limiting factor on horsepower on a Corvair. Not even close!! Its the head temperature's, and the poor characteristics of the stock fan at high rpms are to blame for that. If somebody wanted to do something real about their cooling, especially high rpm cooling (like on a Turbo) spending 2000 on a set of aluminum cylinders is not the way to do it... but buying one of my 1100.00 fans is! I have limited testing on mine at high boost, but I can tell that every time I drilled it with the stock fan and was up around 18psi of boost for more than a few seconds, the head temps would ALWAYS noticeably go up... with my new fan, the head temps always go down by about the same amount. The billet fans are going
to be able to have the same output as mine does, using a 1.4:1 fan pulley ratio, so if more is needed then the pulley ratio can be sped up bringing it closer to a stock pulley ratio. I cant think of anything else that a person can do that increases the available horsepower, and cools better at the same time, especially at high rpms.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: jimc ()
Date: January 20, 2019 08:09AM

Excuse the length of my reply.

I believe Porsche used Nikasil material for reducing weight and the aluminum has better cooling features than the previous/older Biral (cylinders cast iron with aluminum fins) and full cast iron. The bore center to center of the Porsche motor was fixed and as cylinders got bigger, (bore center to center size increased) the fin area size decreased so the properties of Nikasil looked promising. Porsche did not seem to have the issues that Jag encountered with Nikasil at the time.

Popular Mechancis article, Ben Wojdyla, May 6, 2011 suggests Jaguar experienced engine failures due to sulfphur and heat (lack of it).

"Nikasil saw some success in racing, and it remains a good choice when weight and performance are the most important factors. The legendary Porsche 917 used Nikasil as a cylinder-lining material; the 911 still uses it (2011), as do many sport motorcycles. However, when Jaguar decided to go with Nikasil, things didn't work out quite so well.....After the new engine went into production for the 1998 model year, spotty reports of odd engine failures began to trickle in. Slowly, almost imperceptibly, the engines would lose power.

1)Sulfur levels in the world's fuel supply varied widely during the time Jaguar produced this engine. England, Jaguar's home, had a fuel mix with very low sulfur levels, so Jaguar didn't encounter the problem during design and development. But once the engines reached other parts of the globe with higher concentrations of the element in their gas, the trouble started. Sulfur can do funny things to an engine's intake system. If the conditions aren't just right, sulfur combines with ambient molecules to form sulfuric acid, commonly known as battery acid. Sulfuric acid in an engine will attack and corrode any surface it touches, though iron is considerably more resistant to corrosion than Nikasil is.

2) Still, Porsche has long used Nikasil to line its aluminum cylinders, so why did Jaguar have a problem? Enter the second ingredient—heat or, rather, the lack of it. For performance, fuel-economy and emissions reasons, the Jag V8 ran cooler than the Porsche. That lower temperature plus sulfur in the fuel allowed the formation of sulfuric acid."

Here is a link to interesting exchange of Porsche motor failures based on cylinder material. (See hartech's comments) hartech.org

[www.pistonheads.com]

Jimc
1965 Corsa
HACOA Member

CORSA 2017 Concours Senior Gold Award
AACA 2015 Award

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: MonzaDave ()
Date: January 20, 2019 09:33AM

Nikasil worked out real well for the Vega. I understand it was initially considered for the Corvair.

Dave Keillor
Rochester, MN

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: January 20, 2019 10:03AM

MonzaDave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nikasil worked out real well for the Vega. I
> understand it was initially considered for the
> Corvair.



As discussed earlier in this thread, Vega were NOT Nikasil, It was GMs idea of high silicon content.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 20, 2019 11:05AM

Monza109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
"I just have a bit of an issue with who is selling them. He is the same person that snatched up a car only to resell it on ebay when he told the owner otherwise if I remember the story correctly. I went to his place to look at the car for someone and he talked a big game but would not let me see his shop! What unimpressed me is he had done everything and wasn't afraid to tell you."
>>>>>>>>>
> This seems to me to be a rather snarky comment.
> Once anyone buys a car it's theirs to do with want
> they want. You trying to sneak into their shop to
> gather information is a crappy thing to do. I
> can't blame them for not allowing you access. It's
> none of your business. Why talk crap about this
> outfit when you don't seem to have any personal
> experience doing business with them? Your comments
> speak more about you than them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

First off it is a matter of record here of what happened about the car I referenced. No one tried to SNEAK anywhere! Where did you read that? He showed me the piles of junk he had laying outside around the shop but when I asked for a shop tour he gave some lame excuse about the shop being dirty. Have any of you seen pictures of my shop? LOL Cleanliness is not in the forefront.

I don't know where that came from either, the statement of "when you don't seem to have any personal experience doing business with them?".

P.S. I did have personal, face to face, experience with him!

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: January 20, 2019 11:09AM

I have heard some bad stuff about them as well, So I kinda lean towards Kens comments, I know 2 people that bought engines from autobahn and both engines were delivered not as described on the ebay adds, also if you watch his adds he shows pictures of different engines in the same add, so who knows what you will get? Take this add for a PG for instance, he shows pics of different PG's and a couple engines as well, the case is dirty, then he claims the "pictures of the actual PG you are getting did not turn out? HUH? in the digital age the pics did not turn out? shady to say the least!

[www.ebay.com]







1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)

-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2019 11:14AM by davemotohead.

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: oldqmguy ()
Date: January 20, 2019 11:31AM

This has been an interesting discussion to follow. eye rolling smiley

If you want to 'see' what "Nikasil Cylinders" are I suggest you go to www.corvairspecialties.com/products/Cast Aluminum/Nikasil Cylinders.

I came across this site several years ago. This gentleman seems to have a lot of good custom Corvair parts. His prices are not "totally" unreasonable. I have not seen it updated lately so I don't know if he is still in business but his website is still up and has good explanations of his products.

Just saying its a good place to look!

Dale cool smiley

Dale E. Smiley CPBE
Life Member The Society of Broadcast Engineers
RETIRED Broadcast Engineer
CERTIFIED CORVAIR NUT
CORSA/Circle City Corvairs/Corvair Performance Group
Avon, Indiana
WB9SFF
1967 4-Door Monza PG!

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: MonzaDave ()
Date: January 20, 2019 12:27PM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As discussed earlier in this thread, Vega were NOT
> Nikasil, It was GMs idea of high silicon content.

If it was discussed here, it must be true -- unless refuted by FB. My bad. smiling smiley

Dave Keillor
Rochester, MN

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: January 20, 2019 01:08PM

MonzaDave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jjohnsonjo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As discussed earlier in this thread, Vega were
> NOT
> > Nikasil, It was GMs idea of high silicon
> content.
>
> If it was discussed here, it must be true --
> unless refuted by FB. My bad. smiling smiley

I think this tread was a spinoff from this one,

[corvaircenter.com]


both talking about Nikasil

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: john.jackson ()
Date: January 20, 2019 02:53PM

63turbo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The cooling of the cylinders is not the limiting
> factor on horsepower on a Corvair. Not even
> close!! Its the head temperature's, and the poor
> characteristics of the stock fan at high rpms are
> to blame for that. If somebody wanted to do
> something real about their cooling, especially
> high rpm cooling (like on a Turbo) spending 2000
> on a set of aluminum cylinders is not the way to
> do it... but buying one of my 1100.00 fans is! I
> have limited testing on mine at high boost, but I
> can tell that every time I drilled it with the
> stock fan and was up around 18psi of boost for
> more than a few seconds, the head temps would
> ALWAYS noticeably go up... with my new fan, the
> head temps always go down by about the same
> amount. The billet fans are going
> to be able to have the same output as mine does,
> using a 1.4:1 fan pulley ratio, so if more is
> needed then the pulley ratio can be sped up
> bringing it closer to a stock pulley ratio. I cant
> think of anything else that a person can do that
> increases the available horsepower, and cools
> better at the same time, especially at high rpms.


Kevin,
Good information on your fan project. Noticed your Fan thread has not been updated since about Thanksgiving.

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: john.jackson ()
Date: January 20, 2019 03:06PM

Not about Nikasil cylinders, rather about Autobohn iron/steel oversize cylinders.

Spoke with a fellow at the last Fan Belt Toss who was using these cylinders in his 3.1 turbo engine. He was happy with them.

Also searching here I found a few favorable reports about Autohohn (not many).

My observation is that his ebay prices are very high, but who else offers big bore Corvair cylinders?? I mean like $3000 for a set of 140 heads? Give me a break!!

EDIT: I suppose I could contact Pauter Machine about custom Corvair cylinders. They do quite a bit of custom VW cylinders. And they are reputable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2019 03:12PM by john.jackson.

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: January 20, 2019 08:57PM

Dave, it's easy to look up the whole Vega issue if you don't believe us. A friend of mine made a living sleeving Vega blocks. They were not Nikasil.

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: January 21, 2019 04:41AM

davemotohead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...if you watch his adds he shows
> pictures of different engines in the same add, so
> who knows what you will get?

When looking at autobohnengines eBay ads, I noticed their photos are the same as I've seen on Phoenix CL. smiling smiley They must both use the same photographer, right? smiling smiley

Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
65 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4 w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza Convertible 110/4
66 Monza Convertible 140/4 A/C
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5



Attachments:

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Re: Nikasil cylinders on eBay
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: January 21, 2019 06:45AM

Holy cow has this thread expanded in a day. I don't know where to start but here goes.

The Vega was a high silicon content aluminum alloy not a nikasil coating. Apples and oranges. I have never heard that either one was considered for Corvair cylinders, especially since new development was pretty much suspended after 1966. I could be wrong and would be interested in reading more.
In this regard I've always been suspicious of high silicon content aluminum alloy pistons for the Corvair and have never used them.

I did a little investigating of Auto Bohn engines in Michigan a few years ago. It doesn't help when the name is misspelled most of the time but I believe I have it correct. A local fellow wanted me to install one of their engines and get it running. I did not want to do it and haven't heard from the fellow since so I have no idea if he proceeded. I offered to build an engine for him myself but my performance claims were less. I like to think I'm realistic but perhaps I'm just overly cautious.
With the name, I expected to find a Porsche 911 sort of a shop that did some Corvairs as well but found that they're a Pontiac sort of a shop to begin with. I don't know if they're good or bad, I heard some things but then you always do.
They are not the only rebuilt engine install jobs that I have declined, I just don't want to get in a "who's fault is it" sort of a thing if something doesn't work out.
Another of the rebuilt engine install jobs I declined involved an Arizona Craigslist ad but I thought it was in Tucson not Phoenix. I did some investigating and didn't like what I found. I'm building an engine for this guy.

It's the aircraft guys that are making the Corvair nikasil cylinders. I don't know who is producing them but it is not Auto Bohn Engines.
I don't think Corvair Specialties is producing them either, although you can buy them there. I could be wrong. I've done some business with Corvair Specialties but not lately. They have some interesting stuff.
With some searching a few years ago I believe I found who is producing them but I don't remember. I was not going to be a player at those prices so it was no use bothering them.

I still find nikasil aluminum cylinders for the Corvair an interesting topic and would love to read more about the real world application seen at the Fan Belt Toss. Like what's he using for pistons for 3.1 in a turbo.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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