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Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: December 10, 2018 02:56PM

A couple months ago I posted how my 180 ran like crap after being shut down. Appreciate all the feedback, and I made the following mods:
Removed the mechanical fuel pump and steel lines.
Installed electric fuel pump at tank, and right where the lines come thru the firewall installed a regulator with fuel return and pressure gauge.
Ran a short AN6 braided fuel line from the regulator to the carb.
Moved my methanol lines from injection at each head to a single line at the compressor.

Really cold today, but warm later in the week. Will test and report.

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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: irfgt ()
Date: December 10, 2018 04:28PM

I doubt if it will help much. Until you keep the heat away from the carb the problem will continue.

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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: December 10, 2018 05:20PM

irfgt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I doubt if it will help much. Until you keep the
> heat away from the carb the problem will continue.

Idea was to keep fuel as cool as possible by having it in the engine compartment as short as possible, and also turning the pump off a few seconds before the car so when it starts again fuel is cool. Relocation of meth injection at the compressor is to keep compressor, and thus maybe carb a few degrees cooler. Anyway, initial test was good, but its pretty cold, so we'll see end of week.

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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: December 11, 2018 12:28PM

irfgt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I doubt if it will help much. Until you keep the
> heat away from the carb the problem will continue.


Disagree, the heat in the fuel pump is a big part of the problem.

Goatsnvairs: also check the gasket width between the throttle body and the main carb body. You should have .300" or slightly more.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: December 12, 2018 10:09AM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> irfgt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I doubt if it will help much. Until you keep
> the
> > heat away from the carb the problem will
> continue.
>
>
> Disagree, the heat in the fuel pump is a big part
> of the problem.
>
> Goatsnvairs: also check the gasket width between
> the throttle body and the main carb body. You
> should have .300" or slightly more.

Didn't work. Same problem. Very frustrating. I also swapped out the coil and condensor. No change.

I did try shutting off the fuel pump until it died. Then I let it sit like normal, maybe 3 minutes. Then I turned the pump on and it started right up (which it never does). Within 10 s3cs though it was back to crap.

The carb body itself is easily cool to the touch. The throttle body considerably hotter. Will check the thickness of the spacer. Does anyone make a phenolic one?

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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: December 12, 2018 10:16AM

goatsnvairs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jjohnsonjo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > irfgt Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I doubt if it will help much. Until you keep
> > the
> > > heat away from the carb the problem will
> > continue.
> >
> >
> > Disagree, the heat in the fuel pump is a big
> part
> > of the problem.
> >
> > Goatsnvairs: also check the gasket width
> between
> > the throttle body and the main carb body. You
> > should have .300" or slightly more.
>
> Didn't work. Same problem. Very frustrating. I
> also swapped out the coil and condensor. No
> change.
>
> I did try shutting off the fuel pump until it
> died. Then I let it sit like normal, maybe 3
> minutes. Then I turned the pump on and it started
> right up (which it never does). Within 10 s3cs
> though it was back to crap.
>
> The carb body itself is easily cool to the touch.
> The throttle body considerably hotter. Will check
> the thickness of the spacer. Does anyone make a
> phenolic one?

There is a Fiero spacer that has the same throat size, you can cut it with a band saw and drill corresponding holes in it. It's a plastic center with gaskets on either size and the thickness is ideal. I made 2 of them. The part number is 60536. However it did not seem to improve hot start for me. It does help keep the carb to TB sealed better than the paper gaskets which expand/contract and make the 3 screws come loose between the carb and TB

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - SOLD ON BRING A TRAILER 4/30/2019 - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Thanks to all the awesome CCF, CF, COG, and CORSA members who helped me with the restoration!
Other fun stuff - 2020 Porsche GT4 - 1997 Spec Boxster Race Car #94 - Other daily drivers
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: December 12, 2018 10:32AM

[corvaircenter.com].

No, but you can make one. Unfortunately many of the aftermarket ones now are one thick piece, not the original 3 laminations type.


From what you did already it should be OK. Try what you did with the fuel pump off. Next time pull the air cleaner off before restart. Shine a very bright light into the carb, make sure the choke is open, then look in the venturi area and make sure fuel is not percolating up. Also, see if your fuel pressure is still correct.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: December 12, 2018 10:45AM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [corvaircenter.com],
> 735436#msg-735436.
>
> No, but you can make one. Unfortunately many of
> the aftermarket ones now are one thick piece, not
> the original 3 laminations type.
>
>
> From what you did already it should be OK. Try
> what you did with the fuel pump off. Next time
> pull the air cleaner off before restart. Shine a
> very bright light into the carb, make sure the
> choke is open, then look in the venturi area and
> make sure fuel is not percolating up. Also, see if
> your fuel pressure is still correct.

Spacer looks correct. Re your other points, I did check the choke when doing my trouble shooting, it was wide open. Did not look down into the venture, although throat was damp with gas, but that seems normal for a yh.....

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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: December 12, 2018 10:49AM

>
> There is a Fiero spacer that has the same throat
> size, you can cut it with a band saw and drill
> corresponding holes in it. It's a plastic center
> with gaskets on either size and the thickness is
> ideal. I made 2 of them. The part number is
> 60536. However it did not seem to improve hot
> start for me. It does help keep the carb to TB
> sealed better than the paper gaskets which
> expand/contract and make the 3 screws come loose
> between the carb and TB

What the hell, at this point ill give it a try! Appreciate the heads up

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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: December 12, 2018 10:59AM

Wow, can you get a more clear picture of your gasket stack. That looks like a real GM 3 piece. I have some of those and they are good and very hard to find anymore.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: December 12, 2018 11:12AM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, can you get a more clear picture of your
> gasket stack. That looks like a real GM 3 piece. I
> have some of those and they are good and very hard
> to find anymore.

Seems ill be taking it apart soon, so yes.

It is a Wolf rebuild.

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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: December 12, 2018 11:33AM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, can you get a more clear picture of your
> gasket stack. That looks like a real GM 3 piece. I
> have some of those and they are good and very hard
> to find anymore.


I actually have one of those on my car right now...found an NOS 65-66 rebuild kit on Ebay awhile back.

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - SOLD ON BRING A TRAILER 4/30/2019 - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Thanks to all the awesome CCF, CF, COG, and CORSA members who helped me with the restoration!
Other fun stuff - 2020 Porsche GT4 - 1997 Spec Boxster Race Car #94 - Other daily drivers
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: December 12, 2018 12:49PM

I think what I'm going to try next is a insulator / spacer between the carb and the compressor housing. Maybe that will lessen some of the heat transfer.I ordered 2 of the fiero ones Johnson suggested. $6 apiece what the heck.

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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: December 12, 2018 01:00PM

Like this

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: December 12, 2018 01:17PM

Oooops wrong pic

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: December 12, 2018 02:36PM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oooops wrong pic

EXACTLY! Feel hopeful it will help, but I was sure everything I did so far would work too!

Told my wife today if I had to get rid of all my cars but one, I'd keep the Corsa. But its reeaally pushing it....

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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: December 12, 2018 02:39PM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oooops wrong pic
And whats that wire harness you have clamped to the vent tube there? Also noticed choke heat tube disconnected?

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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: December 12, 2018 02:52PM

I feel your pain, I'm sure lots here do as well. When these cars were new these problems didn't exist or they were minor. The cars didn't change, the gas did. Its not only the ethanol, I've run non ethanol, its the blend of other things in the gas the make the evaporate and boil fast. You may still have some other carb problem, YHs are simple, but they are getting old and strange things happen.


I broke my leg in the early 70s, full cast for more than six months. I switched cars with my Mom so I could still drive, Bench seat Cuda. She never once complained about it acting up on hot or cold starts, and she could find faults with lots of things.


How hot is it where you are? There aren't many places that are hot enough right now for you to have this issue.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: December 12, 2018 03:56PM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I feel your pain, I'm sure lots here do as well.
> When these cars were new these problems didn't
> exist or they were minor. The cars didn't change,
> the gas did. Its not only the ethanol, I've run
> non ethanol, its the blend of other things in the
> gas the make the evaporate and boil fast. You may
> still have some other carb problem, YHs are
> simple, but they are getting old and strange
> things happen.
>
>
> I broke my leg in the early 70s, full cast for
> more than six months. I switched cars with my Mom
> so I could still drive, Bench seat Cuda. She
> never once complained about it acting up on hot or
> cold starts, and she could find faults with lots
> of things.
>
>
> How hot is it where you are? There aren't many
> places that are hot enough right now for you to
> have this issue.

Today's high was high 40's. Engine temp gauge was about 325. Exhaust is wrapped, and its a b/f turbo. Compressor is hot to touch, as is throttle body, but carb body itself is warm, not hot. Just don't get it. And its not like 60,mins later all us ok. It takes HOURS to be okay.

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Re: Turbo Hot Start Solution? TBD
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: December 12, 2018 05:09PM

Observant, OK, the switch controls a solenoid that simulates a (home made)ported vacuum source for my A/R unit. The choke heat line that you can see is connected. The one you can't isn't, (another story)


Your not much above carb icing temps. Is your summer winter plate off. In the 40s your choke should probably come back on in 20s minutes after shut down. I'm not sure what going on here. If you can stop the car with a heated engine in a secure place like your driveway, open the hood right away. Let it sit for 15-20 minutes see if you still have the issue.

Are you running points or electronic?

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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