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LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: jetcat ()
Date: December 02, 2018 06:22AM

Would using a LED bulb for the alternator/fan warning light screw up the alternator excitation current? Should I shunt the LED with a resistor to equal the filament bulb?

Bob
Paso Robles, CA

Central Coast Corsa
1966 Turbo Corsa convertible
1966 Corsa 140 coupe

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 02, 2018 08:04AM

Your LM already has the parallel resistor..

Reports say it doesn't work... try one of the new non polarized bulbs





MODERATOR
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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: jetcat ()
Date: December 02, 2018 08:18AM

Thanks Matt! Already reversed the wires on the socket for the polarity but just wanted to make sure the bulb wasn't required for the excitation current. Seams to work and the voltmeter is 14V when running confused smiley

Bob
Paso Robles, CA

Central Coast Corsa
1966 Turbo Corsa convertible
1966 Corsa 140 coupe

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: December 02, 2018 08:34AM

jetcat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Matt! Already reversed the wires on the
> socket for the polarity but just wanted to make
> sure the bulb wasn't required for the excitation
> current. Seams to work and the voltmeter is 14V
> when running confused smiley


Easier to get an non polarized LED

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: jetcat ()
Date: December 02, 2018 09:05AM

Agree on the non-polarized but already had the bulbs. Rewiring the instrument panel for my new gauges anyway.

Bob
Paso Robles, CA

Central Coast Corsa
1966 Turbo Corsa convertible
1966 Corsa 140 coupe

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: December 02, 2018 09:13AM

I would prefer to see someone make a loud "buzzer" for the engine fan belt. If the belt comes off the loud buzzer goes on.

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: jetcat ()
Date: December 02, 2018 09:47AM

A audio alarm would be good. However, I wouldn't want to hear it when turning on the ignition everytime. I guess you could "logically gate" the oil light off and the alternator light on to drive a piezoelectric buzzer. I'm sure someone on the forum would be able to figure it out.

Bob
Paso Robles, CA

Central Coast Corsa
1966 Turbo Corsa convertible
1966 Corsa 140 coupe

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: December 02, 2018 09:59AM

All my new cars and motor home make a variety of noises at every start up. You just get used to it. I put a piezo alert on my headlights since I use them for DRLs. Caught my mistake many times now.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: December 02, 2018 10:33AM

Sorry -- most LED bulbs won't work for the FAN/GEN indicator lamp. BTDT

Basically --- the lamp is not grounded to turn on, power passes through the lamp to supply current to the alternator rotor to energize it on startup. The stator resistance results in about an 8VDC drop across the bulb - not enough to make the typical LED bulb for cars work. I've tried a few. Non polarity bulbs won't illuminate and the non-polarity bulbs (if you reverse the wires) are very dim or don't illuminate. The alternative is to design a custom LED circuit - OR ----

A simple effective fix is to use the brighter #1816 bulb in place of the #1895 specified in the manuals.

Because of the bulb by-pass resistor you could install a relay in place of the bulb to drive a LED bulb at full system voltage and even install an audio alert (buzzer) - but of course that's more complex and more to go wrong.

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: December 02, 2018 12:27PM

Timothy Shortle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would prefer to see someone make a loud "buzzer"
> for the engine fan belt. If the belt comes off the
> loud buzzer goes on.


My 1963 Spyder had a buzzer that would wake up the dead, but it only went off when the engine temperature got hot enough to trigger it. It went off a few times when I threw a belt and didn't notice the light immediately. I was too busy watching the road, trying to be the other kid with the 409 Biscayne!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woodstock CT... Located on the Connecticut / Massachusetts border, approximately 6 miles from the center of Southbridge MA. About 45 minutes from Hartford CT. 1 1/2 hours West of Boston MA. Woodstock CT to Los Angeles CA 2,937.1 miles. 1 Mile as the crow flies to Big Bird's nest.

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: December 02, 2018 12:33PM

And that is just it J Man. The general only put in the buzzer for engine temperature on the high end Corvairs that were driven hard (and engine temp became too high). I wished they had put them on ALL Corvairs and tied them to the fan belt
charging systems. I wonder how many less valve seat failures we would have seen after all these years.

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: December 02, 2018 12:41PM

In all the years that I have driven Spyders, I only dropped one valve seat, and that was a couple years ago, on an engine that I had rebuilt, and had a reconditioned head. Now, on the other hand, I have a friends that have 140 engines, and dropped valve seats on them are more frequent than oil changes.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woodstock CT... Located on the Connecticut / Massachusetts border, approximately 6 miles from the center of Southbridge MA. About 45 minutes from Hartford CT. 1 1/2 hours West of Boston MA. Woodstock CT to Los Angeles CA 2,937.1 miles. 1 Mile as the crow flies to Big Bird's nest.

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: jetcat ()
Date: December 02, 2018 01:45PM

I have no idea what type of LEDs I got. No markings on them. The previous owner used them for the instrument lamps. I didn't like them because they could not be dimmed. However, I used them for the high beam, signals and oil pressure / alt fan warnings. When I plug it all in, there wasn't any smoke, 1st hurdle passed, 2nd everything seamed to work including the fan light. On ignition, LED on, off when running. But later I remembered that the alternator needed some current to flow via the bulb and thought it might be a mistake using a LED. Matt said there is already a resistor in the circuit for the alternator but I couldn't find it in the schematic. Then I assumed it's in the regulator????? Anyhow, I think I'll play it safe and put in a incandescent bulb.

Now on the subject of 1816 bulbs, I used them in my speedometer and tach because my new VDO gauges were much brighter. I'm also using a Westach dual temp gauge and the grain of wheat bulb in that was blinding. Wound up putting 2 1n4000 diodes in series with it.

ANYHOW, will the tach plastic dome lenses survive the proximity and heat of a 1816 bulb?

66vairman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry -- most LED bulbs won't work for the FAN/GEN
> indicator lamp. BTDT
>
> Basically --- the lamp is not grounded to turn on,
> power passes through the lamp to supply current to
> the alternator rotor to energize it on startup.
> The stator resistance results in about an 8VDC
> drop across the bulb - not enough to make the
> typical LED bulb for cars work. I've tried a few.
> Non polarity bulbs won't illuminate and the
> non-polarity bulbs (if you reverse the wires) are
> very dim or don't illuminate. The alternative is
> to design a custom LED circuit - OR ----
>
> A simple effective fix is to use the brighter
> #1816 bulb in place of the #1895 specified in the
> manuals.
>
> Because of the bulb by-pass resistor you could
> install a relay in place of the bulb to drive a
> LED bulb at full system voltage and even install
> an audio alert (buzzer) - but of course that's
> more complex and more to go wrong.

Bob
Paso Robles, CA

Central Coast Corsa
1966 Turbo Corsa convertible
1966 Corsa 140 coupe

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: December 02, 2018 03:24PM

jetcat - ONLY use the 1816 for the GEN/FAN indicator in the speedometer. No it won't get too hot - the lower voltage (for that indicator only) means less wattage.

DO USE the specified 1895 in the TEMP/PRESS indicator. The 1816 will get too hot in that position.

You have to hunt for it, but the bulb by-pass wire is in the main harness under the dash (labeled 24 BRN for 24 gauge brown wire in the diagram). Folks sometimes think it is in the instrument cluster harness - it is NOT.

Keep in mind you can find a lot of "creative" wiring changes in old cars.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2018 03:26PM by 66vairman.

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: December 02, 2018 06:05PM

[www.ebay.com]


BTW this is what I used for my which ways (turn signal), high beam and TEMP/PRES, in over a year, real happy so far, bright enough for a Vert with the top down.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: jimc ()
Date: December 03, 2018 08:33AM

OK, I will ask the stupid question, not being an automotive electrical wizard, would a standard seat belt buzzer be a "solution" to the fan warning issue and work withing wattage concerns?

Jimc
1965 Corsa
HACOA Member

CORSA 2017 Concours Senior Gold Award
AACA 2015 Award

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: oldqmguy ()
Date: December 03, 2018 09:01AM

This is an interesting discussion. I took the EXPENSIVE way out (NO Idiot Lights for this Corvair Nut!). eye popping smiley

The Dakota Digital Custom Instrument Cluster that I installed has a VOLTMETER that indicates the Battery Voltage when the car is running. This give you a good idea of 'how' the Alternator is working but now I have to figure a way to trigger a "wake up stupid, you threw a belt" buzzer! eye rolling smiley

The 'buzzer' (any type 12 volt unit) will work but it requires a little creative wiring to make it useful.

And no, I do not have a solution as to 'which LED' to use!

Dale cool smiley

Dale E. Smiley CPBE
Life Member The Society of Broadcast Engineers
RETIRED Broadcast Engineer
CERTIFIED CORVAIR NUT
CORSA/Circle City Corvairs/Corvair Performance Group
Avon, Indiana
WB9SFF
1967 4-Door Monza PG!

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: December 03, 2018 09:14AM

[www.amazon.com]


Forget the buzzer, these things are cheap and loud.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: December 03, 2018 01:24PM

There are a few practical ways to make a warning buzzer work, BUT there is a reason GM designed the 65 CORSA so ONLY the over temp switch triggered the buzzer (isolated with diode in fuse box harness).

EVERY time you go to start the car the alternator and oil temp circuits turn on the warning lamps (a good time to make sure they work). So - every time you start the car you'll be listening to that racket until the warning lamps go out.

Granted many of us would not care, but back in the day these cars were used daily and that would NOT have been acceptable.

A circuit that delays turning on a buzzer can be built so you can start the car without the buzzer going off.

On convertibles with the top down (can't see lamps on) a warning buzzer is definitely a plus and on my list of umpteen things to get done - LOL.

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Re: LM LED fan warning light
Posted by: larry202br ()
Date: December 03, 2018 02:31PM

66vairman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are a few practical ways to make a warning
> buzzer work, BUT there is a reason GM designed the
> 65 CORSA so ONLY the over temp switch triggered
> the buzzer (isolated with diode in fuse box
> harness).
>
>
Perhaps, but how would you know if the buzzer circuit was operational? Is there an easy way to test it?

1961 rampside with a 65 / 67 110 engine, car four speed.
1965 convertible
1966 Custom two door/four door

KC0SKX
Olathe, ks
HACOA

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