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OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 01, 2018 04:10PM

We've heard that our turbo's when the drain is plugged will
"flood the bearing"

This normally caused by a plugged drain... and then we have the wimpy carbon seal..

Question:

Can any of the newer Turbos be mounted in any orientation..as long as the DRAIN is FREE / OPEN

IE: drain is at 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock.

How about if the Turbo's shaft is Vertical? Cold side up?





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2018 09:45PM by MattNall.

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: December 01, 2018 05:24PM

All turbos are mounted with the shaft horizontally for a reason. You might get away with a little tilt one way or the other but not with the shaft vertical. The drain also needs to be pretty low but can be ever so slightly off vertical.

Turbos, other than those used with a carb do not have hard contact seals and will not stop oil from flowing down and out of the shaft. The turbos with a crabon seal might be able to take laying over on the cold side but not on the hot side.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: caroseiii ()
Date: December 01, 2018 05:26PM

Oil will drain into the exhaust if hot side faces the ground. That piston ring seal leaks already. Imagine if it the drain plug... you have to obtain a different turbo center like a Rajay to rotate the drain.

CA Rose

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 01, 2018 05:43PM

That's what I figured... but wanted to be sure....


Thanks guys!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: December 01, 2018 07:03PM

All the cars I deal with (Volvos) have the drain pipes going straight down.
The job of turbo replacement seems to be few and far between now a days. Possibly
because people are smarter (???) with oil changes, oil is better, modern cars
are better engineered, or a combination of all these reasons.

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: srt ()
Date: December 01, 2018 09:20PM

I used a few airesearch to4's on a few different cars in the past and always mounted the drain as close to vertical as possible. they did have a rotatable center section so that the compressor & turbine housings could be positioned in a ton of differing positions if need be.

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 01, 2018 10:05PM

Yup, in my limited turbo exposure it's all I've ever seen...but was wondering if some of the newer designs had been mounted differently..

The K03 is small and since I can now weld.... I'll build the pipe as needed..

But a Vertical mount with the Compressor above the Side tin and the hot exhaust straight down would be trick! and compact..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: Max Roeder ()
Date: December 02, 2018 03:31AM

Hello Matt,
I don't profess to having "lots of knowledge" but some.
One issue with a flooded/ excessive oil in the bearing cavity is the interruption of the hydrodynamic fluid film which forms between shaft/ sleeve and sleeve/ housing. Because it's been too long since I've rebuilt the corvair turbo I assume the sleeve bearings are a free floating pair depending on oil film for support. If the oil cannot bleed away freely from the bearings the equilibrium of pressures is negatively effected. Another issue with excessive oil in the cavity is oil whirl. If oil is allowed to be agitated it can form gas bubbles and can result in cavitation where the fluid film sees its highest pressures, especially the thrust bearing area. And, the oil is a coolant for the center housing, any delay of oil being replaced will cause unwanted heat rise. If oil is allowed to pool in the center cavity it will in most cases reach its boiling point and coking will occur.

The best turbo reference book I have in my library is written by Jay K. Miller, "TURBO Real World High-Performance Turbocharger Systems". It covers pretty much all aspects of the turbochargers of today.

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: December 02, 2018 04:32AM

Drive behind any modern turbocharged car when they mash the throttle away from a stop light. You will almost always see some brown exhaust from a little blow by.

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/COG Supporting Member/US Navy Veteran
Other fun car: Porsche 911 GT3
Boring daily drivers
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: Max Roeder ()
Date: December 02, 2018 04:49AM

Nickshu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Drive behind any modern turbocharged car when they
> mash the throttle away from a stop light. You
> will almost always see some brown exhaust from a
> little blow by.

That's true in most cases. The reason is while at idle there is very little to no pressure and some suction on the compressor side. Oil will seep past the "seal", they call it "oil slobber", then when the pressure builds the seal is regained and the transient oil is burned off in the engine.

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: December 02, 2018 05:03AM

Speaking of books "TURBOCHARGING" by Hugh MacInnes is very good.

[www.ebay.com]

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: December 02, 2018 06:46AM

Ball bearing turbochargers barely need the drains so they would most likely be an option. Most ball bearing turbos require the installation of a restrictor in the feel line to avoid flooding the bearings (and seals) with oil.

My favorite turbocharger book is Maximum Boost by Corky Bell (founder of Cartech in Texas).

Lee J

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 02, 2018 08:00AM

Max,Not using a Rajay. Borg Warmer KO3 not even a K03S

Vairmech ,Carosiii, Timothy and SRT answered my question



System will be similar to this







MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2018 08:16AM by MattNall.

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: December 02, 2018 08:41AM

Also the reason TC replacement jobs have gone away is they (Yoyos) have been using coolant for turbo cooling
(in addition to using an oil cooler which is cooled by coolant as well). Also the oil feed lines are bigger
diameter and are 180 degrees from the even larger drain pipes. I certainly do not possess lots of turbo knowledge
as these are just facts as I see them in the field.

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 02, 2018 10:31AM

K03 isn't water cooled... and has the internal exhaust bypass / wastegate.

Factory actuator is set at 12 psi. I'll make it adjustable...as I plan on using no more than 3-5 psi....

I'm only trying to make a "peppier" "Stop light Gran Prix" car... GG





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: Max Roeder ()
Date: December 02, 2018 04:59PM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Max,Not using a Rajay. Borg Warmer KO3 not even
> a K03S
>
> Vairmech ,Carosiii, Timothy and SRT answered my
> question
>
> [i.ebayimg.com]-
> l900.jpg
>
> System will be similar to this
>
> [cbperformance.net]
Sorry Matt,
Didn't mean to answer your question with too much knowledge.

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Re: OT:Question for Those with lots of knowledge of Other models of Turbos
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 02, 2018 05:17PM

Not "too much knowledge".... you seemed to be talking about Corvair turbos...

I was asking about newer designs...but it seems packaging concerns haven't been important enough to result in new design.

I had hoped for Air Bearings by now....technology has been around for decades.





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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